“Here’s something I’ve been noticing more and more. I’m wondering if it’s just me or if you guys notice it, too.
When I go out, I see large groups of guys who don’t seem like they even want to meet girls.
They stand in a corner or near the bar and just drink to get fucked up. They are more about hanging with their bros than with meeting girls.
When girls walk by, they aren’t really gawking or drinking more to get the courage to approach.
They genuinely seem disinterested in meeting girls.
A lot of times these are normal guys, too, so it’s not like they are dregs.
Is this a trend that anyone else is noticing?”
The replies speculated/blamed innumerable factors: guys being totally betatized, guys too chicken to approach, packs of dudes who just want to enjoy a night out, declining testosterone, game tactics going blase, selection bias (most guys out on the town aren’t approaching to begin with), porn and video games drying out their souls, fear of public rejections, poor economic prospects, women being too unattractive or too bitchy to approach.
“I am literally the only dude in my social click who is doing stuff and approaching girls.
Most of the guys I met seem happy to be virgins and single and do not feel like less of men, infact they come off as more alpha than me.
I just don’t get it…I mean these my social click are not even catholic or religious.
I can’t fault them, they seem really happy and play laser tag or sports and have a drink at the pub.”
MikeCF replied to the discussion wondering if spending a lot of time trying to pick up your average barfly was a productive use of one’s very valuable time, and then got to the heart of his post:
“But I’m not sure that guys who have “checked out” are pussies inasmuch as they are uninspired. “
You know I always play it straight at the Badger Hut, and this sums up what I am seeing too.
I can only speak for my environment, which is more or less college-educated white-collar urban professionals, but I’m noticing a sort of fatalism among guys my age and below. It’s like they have just taken socializing with women – in a romantic context at least – off the list of things they do.
They go to work, they stay in shape, they have interesting hobbies and rewarding friendships, but they don’t know how to parlay any of those into any kind of success with women, be it sexual conquest or committed relationships. And so like good economic actors, they they’ve trailed off from behavior that is disincentivized.
One of the really key lessons of game that I picked up early on was this: the things you need to do as a man to be financially successful in life, to move your career forward, and to earn the respect of other men are often irrelevant and sometimes harmful to being good with women. What makes you “a great guy” to the boys may have nothing to do with what gets girls interested in you. Success with women is not the blanket reward for a well-built life – it’s another piece of the puzzle, another skill you need to have and a skill tuned to your makeup and lifestyle to boot. It’s a rewarding skill, but it takes a lot of work and practice to build it up.
Obviously, the more money, career upside and physical stature a man has, the better his baseline for success in the game – however, if he has no ability to talk to women in an interesting way, to arrange the logistics to escalate the intimacy, and to express himself sexually, he’s not going to do very well with women. He’ll get told “you’ll make somebody so happy someday!” by a friendzone crush who is wholly uninterested in him. He’ll get a lot of “I had a nice time tonight” pecks on the cheek, and behind his back his dates will tell their girlfriends that he’s “really nice” but somehow just doesn’t do it for them. Until they have to drop to Plan B and his boring stability looks pretty good in the face of fewer and fewer interesting, seductive men making their acquaintance.
In any case, these are not just your below-average omegas opting out. I don’t think they are going their own way intentionally. They didn’t wake up one day and say “American women are teh sUck and I’m done with this shit.” They are just honing in on a lifestyle that is consistently rewarding for them, and these days it doesn’t involve chatting up women they want to date. By the time they are old enough to have some value and get some consistent success with women, they’ve habituated into a sit-it-out mindset.
THEY DON’T TEACH THIS GROWING UP
My mind resonated with another comment on the RVF thread:
“There uses to be something called the singles scene. Men and women would go out in pairs, maybe threes, with the intention of meeting someone. That scene is pretty much dead. It still happens in some places, but the heyday is over. Women these days are more likely to be out in a big group, celebrating some chick’s “birthday weekend” or with their gay friends at brunch. Where the women go, the men [follow] suit.”
I think this is the single biggest factor in men checking out, more than the economy or feminism or porn. They just don’t know how to do it. The social skills for interacting with the opposite sex in a productive manner are just not being taught to the new generation – it’s been replaced with a lot of “just be yourself” bullshit – and the structures to funnel good dating prospects between the sexes don’t exist – they’ve been replaced with turbo-charged meat markets where sex is on the table from the word go.
Young men today have a tactical problem and a moral problem when it comes to meeting girls. They just flat-out don’t know how to do it, and they don’t know if they should want to.
The skills weren’t being trained when I was young for sure, and we’re seeing the fruits of it. I grew up in the era where the active, forward nature of male sexuality itself was criminalized from youth onward. This caused a great period of questioning for many young men who were not born with the charm that makes it OK to be a sexual man. The sexual marketplace is in the thick of a divergence, with attractive naturals getting the lion’s share of women’s attention from a very young age, and the rest of them falling further and further behind as the old expectations of mutual commitment are torn apart and the scene goes fully feral.
Regarding dating structures, earlier generations and societies had governors in place to prevent the sort of “sexual hoarding” we have seen in the last 20 years. This took the form of strictly- or mildly-enforced assortive mating, the natural distinctions of class structure, the overwhelming expectation that people would marry off fairly early and thus had to prioritize attracting a selecting a decent long-term mate, and the teaching of basic skills like dancing and dressing yourself properly. Even school dances and socials where taking a date was expected provided some teaching structure, forcing people to go through the motions of finding (or arranging) somebody who would say yes.
I don’t mean to make it sound like everything was great in the past. There were plenty of problems and people left out. But it certainly seems there was more structure, and so everyone had a much clearer idea what the process was and what their options were.
It’s interesting to hear some people say that they’re seeing more and more guys checking out, while others say they are seeing more and more approach-machine wannabe PUAs trawling the nightclubs and bars. As I tried to point out in my Reciprocal Scarcity posts, economics and sociology are fields of paradox, where seemingly-contradictory things can coexist and be simultaneously true. We can be seeing an uptick in the prevalence of game among a thin but visible cohort, while at the same time seeing a large pocket of borderline men crossing the border and checking out of the game entirely.
Like MikeCF, I’m not criticizing or judging these guys. I’ve been them at times in my life. But it’s too bad, because a lot of them could have a happy life that includes the comforts of women, but they never got a chance when they most needed it.