Measuring Your Game Outcomes

With the recent posts on what game is, it’s prudent to explore the issue further and discuss how to measure game’s impact on a man’s personal life. Any improvement plan – personal, athletic, financial, corporate – had better be bookened by before-and-after evaluation. If you’re a consultant, you’ll get laughed out of the room if you can’t point to some measures of performance and say “these numbers are going to go up/down if we execute my plan.” Powerpointers speak of arranging statistical plots to go “up and to the right,” showing a trend of improvement over time.

As the readership’s game consultant, it behooves me to posit some metrics you can use to tweak and target your game strategy. Here are some goals you might have that motivate your pursuit of tighter game:

I. Attract more women

II. Get further sexually and personally with women who are attracted to you

III. Attract women who are more attractive

In rough order of difficulty.

These are all realistic goals for a man working on his game, but you may notice that they can be contradictory. If you’re working on closing the deal with a woman, you take away time to spend on attracting other women, and if you try to up the caliber of woman you are attracting, the number of women you are attracting is liable to go down. It’s a bit like, say, the national health care debate – should society seek to lower the price of healthcare for those who already have access to it, or to provide access to people who don’t have it now, or to increase access to specialty care for everybody? It’s all about tradeoffs, which is why it’s good practice to pick one of these metrics to work on every time you embark on a game-oriented project.

Attracting more women is largely about putting more time and emphasis on the game itself. Once you’ve identified the level and style of girls who tend to be into you, you go whole-hog into approaching and opening them and at least some of them are going to be attracted to you. To do this, you have to go where girls are – bars, clubs and concerts at night, coffee shops, bookstores, farmer’s markets and yoga studios in the daytime. There’s a lifestyle change, but only to the degree of getting out more and striking up more conversations. A good place to start is to examine how many women you meet in a week.

Secondary skills here are reducing approach anxiety and building your casual conversational skills. The key factor here is to “be cool” (hat tip to Roosh) – if you are OK with the women you can get now, you don’t need any extra game except to do more of it and let whatever natural attraction you have do its work.

An aside: it’s a good practice to not positively reject a lot of women or to get butthurt about their rejection, because even if she’s not into you, her friend might be, and a good word amongst them (“he doesn’t really do it for me but he’s a good guy”) might be enough to get you approved by a girl who’s on the fence about you. Don’t be a beta orbiter, but always recognize the benefits of a magnanimous, genial attitude in social-circle game.

Closing the deal more effectively requires a combination of logistics (arrangements of time and space that are conducive to sex and personal bonding) and seduction (the act of drawing someone into an emotional space where their desires are validated and allowed to blossom). I’ve written about both of these here. Logistics have been covered voluminously in other literature, the basic idea being that you need to actively escalate the privacy and intimacy of the encounter, by isolating, location bouncing/venue changing, and finally getting the both of you to your place or her place, a comfortable, safe environment for sex.

Seduction is the emotive counterpart to escalation, and much game writing focuses on building the personal connection and comfort that sets up a successful seduction without inducing a buyer’s remorse, “OMG what am I doing?” reaction. Contrary to the plaintive didactions of female advice-givers who say “a woman really needs to get to know a man before she’ll be ready to have sex with him,” this comfort can be built up in a matter of hours. It’s really not difficult, do a couple of cold reads or ask some deep rapport questions and segue into an honest discussion about each other (avoid spoiling your mystery by continually turning the conversation back to her).

Along with these, there’s an element of removing anti-game behaviors (like supplication and hesitation, or fidgety body language) to help you escalate and close more reliably.

A sidebar discussion is necessary at this point. It’s important to understand that failure in seduction makes the rest of your game superfluous. Below a certain level of seductive skill, a man’s SMV is effectively 0. It doesn’t matter how many women are attracted to you or how hot they are, if you can’t guide them all the way home then the attraction is for naught. This is the position of a really shitty salesman, who fails to get the sale even when he has customers who want to buy his product for a price he would accept. It recalls Mystery’s quote – “if you cannot attract a woman, you are by definition sterile,” except your problem is not attraction, it’s literally getting the bang.

This is, sadly, the lot of today’s nice-guy beta. He may – and probably does, owing to his educated and genteel upbringing – possess the discipline, intelligence and athletic fitness to be a formidable actor in his cohort’s sexual pool. However, he’s plagued by entrenched anti-game, by insufferable traits like false modesty, aseptic serenity, sexual anxiety and deference to female emotional ejaculation, and a silly sense of ersatz romance that tells him fatalistic coincidence will bring him the love of his life (obviously he’s not listening to Axiom #1). Thus, even when a pretty girl thinks “this guy is interesting and kind of cute, I think I like this guy,” by the time he tries to get her into his bedroom, she’s so frazzled and put off by his incongruent stuttery behavior that her tingle is all gone.

Even more sadly, oftentimes this Poindexter is guilty of only one or two seemingly-minor behavioral faults. A lot of otherwise-adequate guys are sucking in seduction and don’t even know it, disappointing both themselves and the girls – all for a couple of quirks that can be easily fixed.

So don’t let anyone tell you that learning and practicing seductive skills is stupid or “beta” or whatever. This is an area where the anti-gamers and the “inner game” folks are just out to lunch. They tell guys who can’t close the deal to just “be confident” or some other useless aphorism, ignoring the fact that there is a reliable order of operations for taking an attracted woman to bed. If you mess up the order, or leave out certain steps, you will fail almost every time, unless you are with an atypically forgiving, forward or sex-positive woman who is willing to push things along herself.

To make an analogy, imagine firing your gun before you load it. You will never once hit a target if there’s not a bullet in the chamber. Or putting your shoes on before your socks. You’d never advise a young athlete to “just park the car” without training him in parallel parking, or a cook to just throw the ingredients together. It’s ludicrous, in fact. Yet we send men out into the world in pursuit of one of life’s great pleasures for both genders with little more than a platitudinal “well it’ll just happen, one thing leads to another.”

The haters tend to view seduction as a predatory activity, as “fast-talking” a woman into the sack. I find this concept to be close to ridiculous, not to mention patronizing to female sexuality and agency. A girl who’s interested in you, who is spending time with you and responding to your personality, wants to have sex with you – and wants YOU to take the lead and make it happen. They want it as bad as you do, and will judge you harshly if you can’t take them there. (Don’t believe me? Go to a message board where frustrated women talk about guys they dated who couldn’t get the signal and proceed to sexual ravishment. Or just read this post and this one. Women see a lack of seductive success to be a rejection of them, or a failure of the man’s virility or both.)

OK, sidebar over.

Another side note: I can say from personal experience and friends’ testimony that when you jump into the game like this, it’s easy to get impatient and frustrated when your seductive efforts fail. Just as with overcoming field rejection, you can really hamstring yourself if you allow your emotions to get the better of you, and you kick the girl out, or delete her from your phone, or stop responding to her texts or whatever. Plenty of guys getting into the game don’t want to feel like beta orbiters or chumps, and want to dictate the terms of the encounter after being dictated to for so long, and so they are tempted to harshly reject a girl and cut her out of his life when they can tell they’re not going to get what they want.

But you aren’t always getting strung along, sometimes the girl is attracted but has some kind of hangup or another guy she’s consumed with or something else bugging her that has nothing to do with you. Sometimes the move is to just stop any initiating efforts, and see if she comes back to you. You need to accept you’ll have some failures, but you also need to consider that some of your leads who won’t sleep with you now will get the itch later, and you leave that door open when you don’t express an overt, angry rejection.

You really never know when you’re going to get that phone call or text message saying “what are you up to tonight?” or “hey I’m in your neighborhood, let’s meet up” or more simply “want to come over?” Don’t plan on it, but don’t plan against it – it costs you nothing to let go gently and leave her that option.

Attracting more attractive women is somewhat about tightening your game, but ultimately centers around building real value. Making more money, gaining power and influence (or fame), brandishing prestige and dominance, moving in more prominent social circles, and living a lifestyle that is genuinely interesting and alluring.

Unfortunately it’s also the area that’s hardest to improve. Not for no reason does Danger & Play advise dedicating your 20’s to maximizing your cognitive ability and doing the core work for your career and lifestyle, so you can use some game to skim your sexual successes off the top of your lifestyle, instead of trying to use game (social behavior) to paper over the holes in the rest of your attraction palette.

Myself and a few other readers have made the independent realization that to consistently get really high-value women (8/9/10’s), you need to have some real value. Real value means money, power, fame or exceptional good looks. A successful middle-class guy with tight game is not going to be bagging women who have access to music moguls or high-level politicians. Take a look next time you’re out on the town; are desk jockeys who clean up well going home with the hottest girls in the place? Sure, Mystery parlayed a magician act into top-flight nightclub PUA. But he’s an exceptional pickup artist. Neil Strauss followed in his successful footsteps, but was a Rolling Stone reporter who had interviewed rock and roll stars.

A guy who is basically above average but lacks those exceptional traits needs to decide how much he really wants to break through that ceiling and go for elite status in something. And if you’re doing it for the chicks, you probably won’t get there. People who become rich and powerful are usually motivated by internal drives that go way beyond getting laid. Getting women is a side dish of their success.


To conclude this discursive discussion, there are three different goals you can shoot for when you set out to improve your game. Which goal you choose will influence where you put your efforts (including efforts in fields other than your game itself). Always have the goal in mind when you are planning your next self-improvement project.


Filed under original research

14 responses to “Measuring Your Game Outcomes

  1. Opus

    I have little if any disagreement as to the above, notwithstanding my views on Game as I have espressed it in your two previous posts and also over at Heartiste’s today.

    I am however reminded of what a friend of mine told me a few weeks ago. He had been on holiday with his two sons now both in their early twenties. They are as different as chalk and cheese: the elder of the two is serious and has had a couple of LTRs; the younger is happy o lucky, good-looking and women just fall into his lap. His father told me that whilst they were on holiday, he went off to some toilet . He bumped into a girl who promptly invited him back to her room. He refused explaining that he could not come as he was with his father and brother. He cares little as he gets so much action what is one girl more or less. Game? I should not think so.

  2. For us Old Married Guys, it’s still important to measure our results. Your suggested metrics, however, don’t work for us.

    Since implementing Athol’s MAP, my wife and I have gone from making love twice a month to making love three times a week. And there is one particular sex act that I had not experienced in more than a year before starting the MAP; I got six of them in September.

    Those are the easiest things to quantify. There are other observable results, but they are harder to put numbers on. My wife is just more affectionate and less nagging, more respectful of my leadership. Before starting the MAP I believe we were destined to divorce, with a nearly 100% probability. I’d say that the chances we will divorce are now below 20%.

    When I started running game on my wife, she was engaged in an affair. Now she is not, and I’m confident that she will not have another.

  3. Aleph,

    I’m one step ahead of you, I have another post in the works about metrics for married/relationship game (MRG, or Mister Game for those men who are misters). Because relationships and marriages are more structured, the metrics are more geared towards structural factors (is a regular sex life part of your marriage, is your home secure and low-stress, etc).

  4. Opus,

    I read your comments at CH; your objection appears to center around the idea that it’s all about “paper value” (muscles, money, fame) and that game doesn’t produce/enhance attraction. You reject Axiom #3. You could have just said that the first time.

    But it’s simply not true. Changing your behavior does change the way women respond to you. I’ve seen it first and secondhand, and so have thousands of men who have added some game to their personal repertoire.

    And it strains credulity to think that actions have no effect. We can, via our behavior, cause others to feel happy, sad, angry, hopeful – so why wouldn’t we be able to make others feel attracted as well? It works the other way, women can influence our attraction and arousal by the way they walk and talk to us.

    I don’t know if this applies to you, but I’ve noticed a pattern among beta and recovering-beta men to reject the idea of game on the argument you’re making – that girls only care about , and changing your behavior doesn’t matter, and they throw in an anecdote about their friend or brother or nephew or whomever who just has girls flocking to him so game must be a lie.

    These guys are rejecting game really out of a desire to box themselves in and avoid taking any accountability for their attractiveness. They feel like chumps for trying and failing to execute a behavior-based dating strategy (supplicating beta game), but the problem isn’t that behavior doesn’t influence attraction, it’s that they were doing the wrong behaviors. They often parrot the line “putting in effort to get girls is beta.”

  5. jlw

    There is a catagory of guys that cannot be helped by game: it’s the statistical outliers that rate roughly 3 or lower on the 10 point scale (for whatever combination of physical and/or mental issues) that cannot, in turn, be attracted to women below a 7 or so (for whatever reason: sense of entitlement, decades of porn, just plain low sex drive for the average, etc.). Telling them to use game is just like telling a 5’6″ dude to dunk a basketball.

    Nobody writes about these guys because there isn’t many of them relative to the middle of the bell curve and there isn’t any help anybody can give them except some variation on “prepare to stay alone – stiff upper lip!” and that doesn’t sell self-help books or provide grist for blogs.

    I’ve noticed among some who push game a sense of frustration when they encounter someone who is in a mental state where they refuse to consider game. (Sometimes for a bad reason, like a having a false sense of having no potential for SMV improvement – sometimes for a good reason, like being in that small group of irrecoverable omegas for whom game would be a time-consuming waste of effort and money.) When you encounter that roadblock, instead of getting frustrated, you may want to consider just shrugging your shoulders, giving them a whiplash smile, and simply saying, “Good luck, mate!”

    Also, finally, some people just like being a victim. The door to hell is often locked from the inside and it’s hard to understand that hell when you haven’t yourself been locked into it at one point in your life. But it’s out there and the internet gave it wings. When you encounter a professional victim, I recommend simply saying, “Good luck, mate!”

  6. Infantry

    @ jlw

    There will always be guys who game can’t really help, or at least provide a reasonable return on investment. Its not a panacea even though its marketed as such by gurus with a financial interest or puas who’ve sunk a lot of time into learning it.

    Still, if I was one of the men in the categories you’re talking about, I would still try. I wouldn’t go ‘it will never help me’ because objectively this is hard to know through self-assessment.

    If I was short, ugly as sin and/or have a personality disorder or mental illness, I would still do the following:
    1) Hit the gym and get in shape
    2) Get socialised by regularly talking to new people, perhaps through an interesting new hobby (so I have something to talk to people about)
    3) Try learning and practicing game.

    I would do the above 3 for at least a year. If I still had no romantic success, then I would be happy to say ‘game is not for me’ and MGTOW or otherwise try to make a comfortable life for myself free of women.

    A life without sexual relationships with women (or men if thats your thing) is not something I’d like to contemplate, so to have any chance of avoiding it is worth doing the above 3 steps. 2 of those steps are good for anyone’s physical and mental health and should be done anyway by anyone who wants an enjoyable lifestyle.

    To do otherwise is like being an overweight person with a thyroid condition who insists that physical exercise will not help with weight loss. Maybe yes, maybe no, but until you try, how will you know?

  7. Wudang

    “If I was short, ugly as sin”

    Xsplat is short, ugly (a 3 according to himself), balding and almost 50, yet does amazing with women. Not just in Indonesia but in the west before he moved. Today he has money also but he did really well when he was dirt poor as well. He is an exceptional person though.

    If your SMV is extremely low to begin with you need to do some exceptional work in order to get attractive. Obviously high status career and money have been known to help the ugly and awkward. IMO very long term and deep martial arts training can have an amazing impact on your personality and make you a lot more attractive and very alpha:

    Long term meditation and qigong training has extraordinarily deep effects on the psyche and can make you more or less fearless, more relaxed than anyone else she will ever meet, more focused than anyone else she will ever meet, more mentally strong than anyone else she will ever meet, more content regardless of conditions than anyone she will ever meet etc. If you go the martial arts route you will also add more alpha power to it. If you also work on tantric sexuality exercises you can develop yourself so that you have a sexual and sensual radiance about you that women are drawn to and bedroom skills that blow them away (again check out xsplat).

    If you add together high status career, money, deep long term work with martial arts, meditation, qigong and tantra and you combine that with building a great body, upping testosterone a lot, having not a good but a great sense of style, having an awesome apartment, having a mission in life, developing great social skills and a great network of interesting people around you and developing great game over many years, almost anyone can be attractive. It would take a huge effort though and for career success there has to be talents you can`t build from nothing you can only enhance gifts you already have and work hard with them.

  8. Guestopher

    I’d like to see more on the three paragraph sidebar about writing women off. I’ve always written women off after rejection, even when I didn’t know about trying to be alpha. It’s never in a petty, dramatic way; just a drift way. I’m a bit of a loner and am particular about groups of friends. Honestly, I don’t want to spend a lot of time hanging out with someone who has rejected me. Close friends are for making me feel good, not for reminding me of rejection.

    From a practical perspective, if I’m collecting a few numbers a week my phone is going to get crowded quickly if I fail to delete the ones that aren’t going anywhere. However, one way to keep the names and information straight would be to build an MS Access database.

  9. Infantry

    Guestopher, removing girls politely from your life is definitely the ‘go-to’ solution after a rejection. Once you have outcome independence and deep down you truly don’t care if a girl says no, that’s the only time you’d consider keeping them around. You’ll know when this happens, because you’ll be completely comfortable with it.

    Something to consider though is having a well rounded social circle with some girls who are just platonic friends. Besides being a healthy social thing to have, if I was going to deconstruct it pragmatically it would also provide:
    1) Feminine energy for when you don’t have any women on the go. A woman’s laugh is a beautiful thing, even if its from a friend or your sister.
    2) Introductions and social proof (preselection) to other women
    3) A feminine perspective on social situations

    I was a hardcore PUA for a few years, but now I’m happy to keep platonic girls in my life. I don’t know how I did without them to be honest.

    As for your database, its quite common for online daters to do it (even women). There might even be prebuilt spreadsheets floating around.

  10. jlw

    At Infantry:

    I agree with, I think, everything you say. I would even suggest that one year isn’t enough time. I like the order of your three steps too. And, while a young man is trying those steps, sites like this one provide nice tools and encouragement.

    And if MGTOW is what turns out to be necessary, then so be it.

  11. Infantry

    After 1 year he should see enough signs of improvement to motivate him to keep going. If he doesn’t find that motivation after a year I don’t blame him for leaving it alone.

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  13. Nupnupnup

    [quote]Nobody writes about these guys because there isn’t many of them relative to the middle of the bell curve and there isn’t any help anybody can give them except some variation on “prepare to stay alone – stiff upper lip!” and that doesn’t sell self-help books or provide grist for blogs.

    For those there’s Prozac and other SSRIs. If you cannot get laid either way, the annoying sexual side effects (that are responsible much more for people stopping to take them than the fact that they do not improve mood which they do and quite predictably so) are mainly a non-issue. Incidentally, my shrink tells me it is is sort of strange not to be bothered by them but honestly, what does it matter? In fact, low libido helps in this scenario…

    Of course, in my case, not getting laid is a purely psychological thing – classic paper alpha – so obviously the shrink would love to fix it (at the same time he still refuses to let me experiment with the meds that might actually help for their abuse potential).

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