Being An Emotional Man Does Not Equal “Talking About Your Feelings”

My post on intimacy and commitment produced a rush of activity (thanks guys) and a number of comments that provide fodder for more writing.

Prime among the discussion items was the difference between being emotionally active and open, and “talking about your feelings.” One of the aspects of intimacy that gets people is the (correct) rejoinder that women don’t want men to “talk about their feelings.” This is true – arguing from emotions is something women don’t expect men to do and find foreign and disruptive, and is usually a one-way ticket to a journey beyond sight and sound to The Beta Zone. Sensitive New Age Guyism taught men to be kinder and gentler and to show “vulnerability” via verbal upchuck. Extensive, multi-generational field testing has shown this approach to be a complete and utter failure.

A significant skill in the gaming man’s toolbox is learning to be emotionally alive without making it about filling some emotional gap or need you have – you can be giving and evocative and intense and passionate without being needy and a sink of psychological resources. I concur with Xsplat that when done right it’s a more effective game strategy, if harder to pull off than straight aloofness.

If I may quote the inimitable Roissy, Commandment 9:

IX. Connect with her emotions

Set yourself apart from other men and connect with a woman’s emotional landscape. Her mind is an alien world that requires deft navigation to reach your rendevous. Frolic in the surf of emotions rather than the arid desert of logic. Be playful. Employ all your senses. Describe in lush detail scenarios to set her heart afire. Give your feelings freedom to roam. ROAM. Yes, that is a good word. You’re not on a linear path with her. You are ROAMING all over, taking her on an adventure. In this world, there is no need to finish thoughts or draw conclusions. There is only need to EXPERIENCE. You’re grabbing her hand and running with her down an infinite, labyrinthine alleyway with no end, laughing and letting your fingers glide on the cobblestone walls along the way.

You need to SHOW her where you are by taking her there with you, instead of “talking” about it and killing it in the process. It has to be not about your “needs” but about staking out psychological space and inviting her into it. When you make it a psychological dividend, a bounty you share with her, you raise it from a need to a pleasure in which she will be glad to partake.

An analogy I came up with is that you can have good food and drink as a regular part of your life, without making it all about filling your hunger need. You don’t say “please feed me because I am hungry;” you say “let’s make a huge ribeye steak and some buttered steamed asparagus, mmmm.” You’re excited not because you’re about to scratch the hunger itch but because you are on the precipice of a rich tapestry of sensation (As you might guess, I tend to eat slowly so as to savor the flavor).

Some writers in our corner of the net have portrayed emotion-inducing men as beta males, under the idea that emotion=beta and alphas are boorish frat guys. That’s a bunch of hooey. People who can make us feel strong emotions are highly valued and given access to key positions in music, acting, sports, ministry and politics. That’s an alpha trait, alpha=social influence and charting your own course. If you can induce emotional resonance in a crowd (or even a small group), you can be a leader and hold great sway over society.

I discussed this in one of my early posts, about blues musicians. I noticed that bluesmen were always singing about some woman who had done them wrong, about the miseries of their lives and their existential hard-luck pain. Their characters were whining up and down the register. Yet the singers themselves got laid like tile. So what was it – what made these guys, assuming the role of a second-rate tramp, so irresistible to women?

After some thought, it was easy: the song and the stage experience were an emotional adventure. The content was beta, but the execution was alpha – they were connecting with the audience, making them feel tantalizing things they didn’t feel in the cafeteria at work.

EMOTIONAL CONTROL IS KEY

Yohami and Deti went back and forth on the idea that modern women want a man to construct an “emotional amusement park” where she can experience the feeling of thrilling danger, but without real risk. I don’t quite concur with this analysis, in that I don’t gather that women want a pain-free emotional experience or for the man to not have any emotions, but rather that they want a man to be in control of his emotions and they interpret a man trying to work through his feelings to be on the brink of losing it.

Men are on the whole are bigger and stronger than women, so a man whose emotions are out of control is quite dangerous to a female. Because of this danger, society has developed ways to shame and denigrate men into keeping their emotions in check. The cheap knocks women throw at men that they are “creepy” and “angry” are attempts to leverage this reflexive shame hook for a quick shutdown of the conversation (as we know, the ladies often doth protest too much).

MALE SOCIAL BONDING PROVIDES A DISAPPEARING OUTLET

Candide had a brilliant comment about how the decline of male-only spaces has led men to disgorge their emotional lives onto their wives and girlfriends, instead of in the same single-sex environs which used to be safe havens.

Previously, it was expected and socially encouraged, men had their own space and dealt with each other in their own way. Now, male spaces have been all but destroyed, mentorship is a thing of the past, and men are saving the motherload of emotional vulnerabilities for women they have a relationship with.

This is part and parcel of social mothballing of the masculinity ladder. Male social dynamics have two major parts: the first in which men are tested for their fitness for membership, and the second in which having passed the test they are accepted into the group almost wholesale. I don’t see this in female social groups (in fact I see the opposite – immediate superficial acceptance, followed by an undercurrent of obfuscated and passive-aggressive challenges from the inside).

Within this tested and socially proofed environment (homosocial is the term feminists like to use for this, with the intentionally uncanny allusion to latent homosexuality), men are finally free to express themselves emotionally, confident that everyone has paid the price for exclusivity and wouldn’t dare violate the boundaries of the group.

As Candide notes, many of these male spaces have been diluted or eliminated entirely. One place they still exist for young men where they can learn emotional continence is in sports, where it’s OK to celebrate each other’s successes and weep together in your failures. There’s a reason the “locker room” is a linguistic meme for a protected inner circle of male social order.

One place young men learn this is in sports, where it’s OK to celebrate each other’s successes and weep together in your failures. There’s a reason the “locker room” is a linguistic meme for a protected inner circle of male social order.

Wise men of influence acting as coaches know how to cultivate and shape this test-accept sequence for the greater good. When done right it produces teams that are internally accountable and suppress selfishness, narcissism and sloth. When done wrong, with members endowed with too much power, you get hazing and froshing that serve as nothing more than systematic humiliation.

Likewise, if you lower the price of entry too much (as our “trophies for everybody” culture is wont to do), you get people who don’t care because they don’t have to, another group that is over-reliant/codependent, and others who have paid the price who want no part of counseling them.

RIDE THE WAVE

Candide followed up with a riff on the emotional bifurcation I spoke of in the original post.

Regarding culture, I think the modern mainstream urban WASP culture produces very timid, emotionally weak people with intimacy issues over the last few generations (tail end of X, whole of Y and Millenials). It shows in very basic social situations like meeting & talking to strangers at social events. They can’t manage their own emotions, so they either stay completely closed off, or way too open too soon (binary switch).

I think it takes more to run Xsplat game and go high-affect early in the seduction, because of the careful adjustment and balance required. It’s schematically simpler to just shut down your emotional system and play aloof, but the reward for creating primary emotional responses can be so much higher - in her mind and in yours.

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34 Comments

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34 responses to “Being An Emotional Man Does Not Equal “Talking About Your Feelings”

  1. Wudang

    Really good post Badger!

  2. deti

    I am still grappling with this. I get the sense that most women are like this with most men:

    1. He can feel his positive emotions so long as he isn’t overly emotive. Being overly emotive is histrionic and unmasculine, and thus unattractive.

    2. He can feel his negative emotions; just not around women or in their presence. Women do not want to see any man feeling, experiencing or working through fear, anger, rage, frustration, helplessness, sadness, despair or depression, whether he is in control of these or not.

    3. He should not talk about his emotions with his woman, especially his negative ones. He should not analyze them or ask her help with them in any way. Talking about emotions smacks of psychotherapy. No woman wants to be a romantic partner’s counselor or therapist.

    4. A woman wants to be free to experience her own emotions at any time, in any place, in any manner she sees fit. She wants to and, I think, expects to be able to, feel them, talk about them, analyze them, experience them, and have her man help her work through them.

    This is a difficult thing for many men, I think, because many of them rely solely on their women/GFs/wives as emotional support. This is why so many men are told not to ditch their male friends when they get involved with a woman. She cannot give him a safe place to feel his negative emotions. He has to find that somewhere else.

  3. Just because they want all those things doesn’t mean that they should necessarily get them.

    Control is the key. As I’ve recently said to my adolescent son, “There have been less than a handful of times in my entire life where losing emotional control was a good and wise and productive idea.” Women want to see emotion behind the tight-fisted control a man exercises — like a lion at the zoo, close enough to feel the danger, yet protected by a secure barrier. If that barrier isn’t secure, it might be more exciting, but it also becomes more uncertain. Depending on the woman, that can be a plus or a minus, but if she’s an emotional-danger junkie, you might want to reconsider.

    I see the male role as a kind of Zookeeper, and his emotional landscape a zoo. The woman is free to wander around the zoo, be amused by the monkeys, be thrilled by the majesty of the big cats, be impressed with the gracefulness of the herbivores . . . but the Zookeeper decides just how much she gets to see. If she treats the zoo with respect, he lets her see more. If she acts like it’s no big deal, and she’d rather be doing something more interesting, then she can go pet the rabbits and get the hell out for the day — a token “warm fuzzy” is all she deserves if she’s not going to take the Zoo seriously.

    Just an analogy, but perhaps it will be helpful. The point is, the woman is free to observe and experience the zoo for herself . . . she doesn’t want the zookeeper giving her a boring guided tour of the penguin tank yet again. And if she bumps up against an area that he’s not willing to show her, a simple “this section is closed for the moment, sorry for the inconvenience, maybe when you’re ready to handle it” is usually sufficient.

    I agree utterly with the post and all of the comments — one of the beautiful things about the Manosphere is that it is a reasonably safe place for men to discuss, bitch, speculate, complain, whine, emote, and do so without judgement or rejection. And I’d also add Scouting into Sports, and probably a few other activities (shooting, fishing, hunting, motorsports, Three Stooges Appreciation Society). Indeed, in my troop we’re having an issue with a mother who wants to be an asst. Scoutmaster, and doesn’t see anything wrong with boys being led by a woman. The consensus of male opinion is that it takes a Man to turn a Boy into a Man, not a Woman. We shall see how it plays out.

    Lastly,
    Male social dynamics have two major parts: the first in which men are tested for their fitness for membership, and the second in which having passed the test they are accepted into the group almost wholesale. I don’t see this in female social groups (in fact I see the opposite – immediate superficial acceptance, followed by an undercurrent of obfuscated and passive-aggressive challenges from the inside).

    This is exactly how I describe the differences between the male and Female Social Matrix on my blog.

    http://theredpillroom.blogspot.com/2012/05/female-social-matrix-introduction.html

  4. “I don’t quite concur with this analysis, in that I don’t gather that women want a pain-free emotional experience”

    Pain can be part of it. The “safety” is really about protecting her from the repercussions and responsibility of her own actions / drama.

    As for emotions, in my experience you can display all of them a long as they come from an alpha / authority / masculinity frame.

    Having vulnerabilities isnt masculine / decreases your authority, so none of that.
    Adoration / pedestal / neediness is low value, so none of these.
    Resentment = inferiority, none of that.
    Submissiveness is feminine, so none of that.

    And then when she’s craving for your emotional side, what she really wants is the emotions that she will feel. And she´ll feel them more when they come from the alpha / authority / masculine frame, because that will let her embrace her surrendering / deferent / feminine side.

    Emotions. You can still need her, adore her and want her, like you would do with a chocolate flan. You can still get mad, scream and curse and command, like you would do with a puppy.

    In short, a frame similar to what you would need with a kid or an employee.

    Which is different to the frame you would expect to share with an “equal”

    Women are not your equals. They like you because you’re a “man”. And you like her because she’s a “woman”. Play your part and she plays hers and that works better than a shapeless uniform mess.

    I’ve found more and more that whenever I have vulnerabilities and stuff in a relationship and I dont know what to do… it’s because Im expecting HER to give me some cues of how to act. And that I can resolve them if I center myself and figure what I really want, and then just tell her to do her part, like a simple instruction / direction with no negative connotations. The more I command, the better I can manage my own vulnerabilities and needs.

    “sharing those” is like expecting someone else to care about them. But she’s a woman and she´ll get confused. She thought you were a “man”.

  5. I agree with most of what you write Deti, but quibble that women don’t want men to share anger. The don’t, but you have to anyway. It’s like they will say that they don’t want to be dominated, but if you know them well you’ll know when to dominate them. Same for anger – it is an essential tool that will certainly need to be used.

    Let me think about the rest of your list:
    fear: I agree. Keep it to yourself.
    anger: if it is not impotent, but is part of useful action, then express it. Especially when directed at her.
    rage: as above
    frustration: Keep it to yourself. She should be surprised to ever see it with “I’ve never seen you like this”.
    helplessness: don’t have it, and if you do, don’t show it.
    sadness: just as you say. That’s your business, not hers.
    despair or depression: your life is structured to avoid these. If you have them you’ll have other problems regarding attraction beyond these emotions. Regardless, I agree with you. These are personal.

  6. Also women have emotions I expect them to keep to themselves also. I want no part in hearing them. Jealousy, for instance. Don’t care. Shut up.

  7. Guestopher

    Other common emotional issue: It’s hard for me to keep my game tight when I care or feel something for a woman.

    I don’t know what to do other than to keep working on my game and find a more masculine way to express my feelings. I certainly can’t control when I’m going to get that killer combination of sexual AND emotional feeling. I’d love to feel it for more women; I’d love to turn it off when a woman is pulling away. But attraction is not a choice.

    I don’t “feel” unless a woman is reasonably young, attractive, and very feminine. I’ve got to work through the baggage of society telling me that it’s wrong to only be sexually and emotionally attracted to these women. On top of that shit, I’ve found no substitute for the feeling that women like this can give me and I don’t know how to avoid needing women like this to push my sexual AND emotional buttons. Emotional buttons get pushed every day. Sexual buttons and sexual release are almost as easy to come by. But that combination of sexual and emotional is unique and so much greater than the sum of its parts.

  8. Women are only good for what they are good for. Maybe they can give solace to their babies when distressed, but they aren’t useful to men for that. There is no use expecting them to good at that if in fact they aren’t, and being disappointed in them is equally futile.

    They also aren’t great at commitment.

    They are good for enjoying many forms of intimacy.

  9. Maybe I was being hasty a bout sadness. When it’s not a sign of weakness, such as showing grief over a lost child or dying mate, and when not milked for effect or solace, it’s attractive. I guess those are some keys to emotional openness, not showing neediness, weakness, or asking for solace.

  10. DC Phil

    I can certainly relate to the point about disappearing male spaces. But, as someone who never was into sports growing up, and preferred intellectual pursuits, it was doubly hard for me to find a place where I could be myself and express my interests, while at the same time being a man.

    For example, since 17 years of age, I’ve had an interest in classical music, despite having only piano lessons when in grade school and never having played professionally. In contemporary US society, classical music is a niche interest, mostly a result of the dumbing down of the educational system.

    From what I can remember, classical music clubs were mostly female, but the odd betaized male — just like in band club in high school. Having little choice, I had to adapt to being with females most of the time, which I’m sure didn’t contribute to a positive relationship with them a la the Manosphere. (Read: I became somewhat betaized through little fault of my own.) I didn’t like relating to the betaized males because they lacked that quality of masculinity that I knew I had deep within me, but was lacking in the means to express it because of my interests. When I started going to concerts fairly regularly, again, lack of men my own age with the same interests. Too many senior citizens, married folks, uptight and exclusionary rich folks (who went to such concerts to show they were “cultured” and not the usual philistines they usually were), and betaized males, not to mention older females who were on the road to cat-lady-dom.

    This extended to other intellectual pursuits, since I was a reader and wanted to discuss lofty subjects. Again, I usually found women to be better able to hold a conversation about something remotely intellectually interesting. Masculine men who enjoyed debating ideas and learning from each other, without it degenerating into a pissing match, were few and far between. Doesn’t seem to have changed much since those days.

  11. deti

    DC Phil:

    So, Phil must be short for “Philharmonic”.

  12. Infantry

    More good stuff. I’m glad we went down this road to explore how emotions should be expressed and when.

    I like the concept of having controlled emotions. The analogy of the zoo was a good one. You can show negative emotions to a girl, but as if they are behind glass. I see the ‘behind glass’ as being in control of them and not letting it affect your judgement. Also, being able to close the shutters on that glass window at anytime.

    I remember crying in front a few girls due to extremely strong emotions, but my body language or tone doesn’t change. It was obvious what I was feeling, but I didn’t lose control or start sobbing, it was only tears. The two times I’ve done this recently was when I found a friend who had committed suicide and another was when I told a girl I wasn’t getting what I needed out of our relationship. Both times it was well accepted because it was congruent and appropriate for the circumstances. I was comforted and actually got more affection rather than less.

    That said, I still think it’s a good idea to process negative emotions away from women in safe spaces, whether with male friends or alone. This isn’t always possible as someone said before; girls don’t like it when you’re angry at them, but you need to do it for several reasons; its congruent, it acts as a healthy vent (so you can quickly move past it rather than bottling it up.), it can correct bad behavior and lastly it garners respect because you are policing your boundaries. The anger should be controlled though. If its done right she shouldn’t be fearful of you, but still see the issue as serious.

    The more I think about this, the more I think its not about having the emotions or even showing them. Its about still being a strong man always in control of your behavior and not having your judgment affected. When men become irrational, women don’t know how they will react. This can make them potentially dangerous to the woman, but more importantly it also shows the woman that the man can’t be trusted to lead her as he will make bad judgments.

    All of that aside, I still agree with Yohami when he talks about not displaying weakness around women. I don’t think showing emotion the right way is weakness (with the potential exception of fear, or showing negative emotion in a social setting). Lack of control of your emotions is weakness. Chronic displays of negative emotion; pessimism, sadness (depression), anger and the like just makes you a downer to be around (for men and women alike).

  13. @xsplat
    “Women are only good for what they are good for. Maybe they can give solace to their babies when distressed, but they aren’t useful to men for that. There is no use expecting them to good at that if in fact they aren’t, and being disappointed in them is equally futile.”

    Wise words.

    @Guestopher
    “Other common emotional issue: It’s hard for me to keep my game tight when I care or feel something for a woman.

    I don’t know what to do other than to keep working on my game and find a more masculine way to express my feelings. I certainly can’t control when I’m going to get that killer combination of sexual AND emotional feeling. I’d love to feel it for more women; I’d love to turn it off when a woman is pulling away. But attraction is not a choice.”

    You can’t control when it happens, but you can stay on top of the feeling. Atm you are letting it drive you out of control. The woman is meant to be the volatile one, not the man.

    @DC Phil

    Your dilemma is due to women invading male spaces and destroying them one by one. At one point in the distant past, you could find masculine men studying and enjoying classical music, history and the arts. Those are in fact a huge part of the foundation of civilisation. Guess what the feminists attacked first? Being able to control and rewrite history, twist the language, re-interpret the classic literature and turn what once was masculine into something exclusively feminine – that’s tremendous power. Then they took over teaching, to “get ‘em while they’re young”, and the game is complete.

    One of the most prominent and masculine Red Pill men – whose writing awoke me – majored in History and English literature. He made me realise why feminists were so quick to invade and take over those fields, turning them into women’s areas and making men reluctant to take them. The classics are full of Red Pill truths that they don’t want us to learn.

    What remain of male spaces are sports and the military, but we all know about Title IX and what’s happening to the latter. Besides, you can’t really say what we share between men here in your sport club or in the army, you’ll get kicked out. The Manosphere is really the only true male space now.

    @deti

    You can certainly show masculine and “negative” emotions like anger to women without losing any attraction, but it has to be exactly that – a show. Underneath, you must have full control of your anger. It’s a major tingling factor, in fact. I’ve been teaching a married man this as part of his Game / Red Pill education to save his marriage, with huge success.

    Same as other emotions like despair or frustration. See Badger’s example of the blues musos getting laid like tile (I’m friends with a few, and I’m a blues dancer myself). Through their music, they whine about lost love, hard life and what have you, BUT at no point do they lose control of their arts. The despair is all for show. Major tingles. This showmanship factor is very important in Game. That’s how artists get laid with seemingly very beta moves.

    What would drive the woman away is if their despair hits them so hard that they can’t even sing & perform anymore. Now that’s real despair, and women can’t deal with it. If a man hits that rock bottom spot, he needs fellow men to help him out, never his woman. A woman can’t possibly comprehend what a man goes through, it is pointless to pour it out to her and look for sympathy. There is no NAWALT in this, all women are like that. The good ones may try, but they can’t do anything. At best (minority of cases) you’ll get no help, most of the time you’ll lose her respect and more.

    Finally, for your reading pleasures, here are the two articles that got me thinking about male friendship and how men have been conned into saving all intimacy for their woman:

    http://artofmanliness.com/2008/08/24/the-history-and-nature-of-man-friendships/

    http://artofmanliness.com/2012/07/29/bosom-buddies-a-photo-history-of-male-affection

    And a quote:

    ““Boys imitate what they see. If what they see is emotional distance, guardedness, and coldness between men they will grow up to imitate that behavior…What do boys learn when they do not see men with close friendships, where there are no visible models of intimacy in a man’s life beyond his spouse?” -Kindlon and Thompson, Raising Cain”

  14. I’ve long had a controversial view towards showing anger and rage. I do agree that such a strong emotion can lead to being out of control. But it doesn’t always have to be like that. We can ride huge waves with control.

    Thermonuclear
    anger game: tactical rage

    The
    boxers speedbag and the masculine frame

  15. Candide

    Hey Badger, I got a big ass comment stuck in moderation earlier. It’s because of the two links I included at the end, I think.

  16. Orion

    Being a long time Blues fan there is another aspect regarding the nature of the Blues that I think you are missing. While it is being performed in front of others a good portion of the vibe is that it is an expression of inner turmoil and roiling emotions that is really more self directed or focused. In some ways it is really a conversation with yourself that others happen to be over hearing. Maybe not true of all of it (there is a lot of variation) but what it connected with in me. Try using that frame of mind and listen to some of the classic cuts and you’ll take a new appreciation away from it. That and the incredible skill and artistry of some of the musicians.

    The flip side was the depressing, feminized stuff from the ’80s and at least a chunk of the Emo stuff I have heard. All of that stuff sounded more like pleading and a cry to “look at me”. Sure, those musicians got laid quit a bit (though often by the same gender) but it was more based on the frame you were describing.

  17. Anonymous Reader

    The late Albert Collins: “If you love me like you say…”

  18. Anonymous Reader

    Albert Collins again: “Too many dirty dishes, for just us two”.

    He owns the stage and everything around it.

  19. Anonymous Reader

    The point being, bluesmen like Collins are not whiners, and the genre actually has more than a bit in common with the androsphere.

  20. Pingback: Linkage Is Good For You – 8-5-12 | Society of Amateur Gentlemen

  21. there’s still SOME male only events in the military. and yes, we can immediately smell when a man doesn’t belong among us. there are 2 guys i work with that we openly avoid.
    another group where if you don’t fit in would have to be in the line-up among surfers. you will catch a beating if don’t act accordingly with the locals.

  22. Stg58

    My wife doesn’t know 95% of the thoughts rolling around in my head and for good reason.

  23. wudang

    “the genre actually has more than a bit in common with the androsphere.”

    How so?

  24. Candide

    @xsplat
    “Women are only good for what they are good for. Maybe they can give solace to their babies when distressed, but they aren’t useful to men for that. There is no use expecting them to good at that if in fact they aren’t, and being disappointed in them is equally futile.”

    Wise words.

    @Guestopher
    “Other common emotional issue: It’s hard for me to keep my game tight when I care or feel something for a woman.

    I don’t know what to do other than to keep working on my game and find a more masculine way to express my feelings. I certainly can’t control when I’m going to get that killer combination of sexual AND emotional feeling. I’d love to feel it for more women; I’d love to turn it off when a woman is pulling away. But attraction is not a choice.”

    You can’t control when it happens, but you can stay on top of the feeling. Atm you are letting it drive you out of control. The woman is meant to be the volatile one, not the man.

    @DC Phil

    Your dilemma is due to women invading male spaces and destroying them one by one. At one point in the distant past, you could find masculine men studying and enjoying classical music, history and the arts. Those are in fact a huge part of the foundation of civilisation. Guess what the feminists attacked first? Being able to control and rewrite history, twist the language, re-interpret the classic literature and turn what once was masculine into something exclusively feminine – that’s tremendous power. Then they took over teaching, to “get ‘em while they’re young”, and the game is complete.

    One of the most prominent and masculine Red Pill men – whose writing awoke me – majored in History and English literature. He made me realise why feminists were so quick to invade and take over those fields, turning them into women’s areas and making men reluctant to take them. The classics are full of Red Pill truths that they don’t want us to learn.

    What remain of male spaces are sports and the military, but we all know about Title IX and what’s happening to the latter. Besides, you can’t really say what we share between men here in your sport club or in the army, you’ll get kicked out. The Manosphere is really the only true male space now.

    @deti

    You can certainly show masculine and “negative” emotions like anger to women without losing any attraction, but it has to be exactly that – a show. Underneath, you must have full control of your anger. It’s a major tingling factor, in fact. I’ve been teaching a married man this as part of his Game / Red Pill education to save his marriage, with huge success.

    Same as other emotions like despair or frustration. See Badger’s example of the blues musos getting laid like tile (I’m friends with a few, and I’m a blues dancer myself). Through their music, they whine about lost love, hard life and what have you, BUT at no point do they lose control of their arts. The despair is all for show. Major tingles. This showmanship factor is very important in Game. That’s how artists get laid with seemingly very beta moves.

    What would drive the woman away is if their despair hits them so hard that they can’t even sing & perform anymore. Now that’s real despair, and women can’t deal with it. If a man hits that rock bottom spot, he needs fellow men to help him out, never his woman. A woman can’t possibly comprehend what a man goes through, it is pointless to pour it out to her and look for sympathy. There is no NAWALT in this, all women are like that. The good ones may try, but they can’t do anything. At best (minority of cases) you’ll get no help, most of the time you’ll lose her respect and more.

    Finally, for your reading pleasures, here are the two articles that got me thinking about male friendship and how men have been conned into saving all intimacy for their woman:

    hxxp://artofmanliness.com/2008/08/24/the-history-and-nature-of-man-friendships/

    hxxp://artofmanliness.com/2012/07/29/bosom-buddies-a-photo-history-of-male-affection

    And a quote:

    ““Boys imitate what they see. If what they see is emotional distance, guardedness, and coldness between men they will grow up to imitate that behavior…What do boys learn when they do not see men with close friendships, where there are no visible models of intimacy in a man’s life beyond his spouse?” -Kindlon and Thompson, Raising Cain”

  25. Anonymous Reader

    Women who request, or worse yet demand, that a man “show his sensitive side” cannot be trusted. Likely they are parroting a slogan their girlfriends / “relationship experts” / etc. have told them, this is bad enough. There are some who want to know things that they can later use as tools of manipulation. Not so common, true, but they do exist. Better to let them reveal their manipulative nature on some other issue…which they will do, every time. It may look like a shit test, but there’s always a little more “give me control over you” aspect to a manipulatrix’s gambit.

    Tangentially, both men and women can be hungry for emotional intimacy, so hungry that they want to rush into the deep end of a relationship right away. “Instant intimacy” rarely works, and attempting it can be very off putting to men and to women.

    wudang, Candide answered this. The combination of anger, anguish and self control, along with humor and obvious musical skill, just for a start. Expressing a point with some irony, and flair. It’s very different from three chords and a whine, which is my impression of the emo stuff.

    Candide brings up a very significant point: no woman is really equipped to help a man who is depressed – and by this term, I mean something along the lines of the medical health diagnosis, not just a series of bad days.

    When a man feels that nothing he does will work, that all of his efforts are doomed to fail, or that everything he cares about is crumbling, being taken away, destroyed, etc. (in other words, the depths of despair) this is not a time when any woman can help. If he’s religious, then he needs to find a masculine religious leader. If not, then he needs trusted friends, comrades from his past. The anonymity, or pseudo anonymity, of the androsphere is unfortunately the closest thing we have. Far better if a man could go to his lodge, or club, or some other men’s-only place to deal with such issues.

    Viktor Frankl in his small book “Man’s Search for Meaning” makes very clear, from his own life, that while we cannot control events happening to us, we can control how we choose to react to those events. It may be very difficult, but it can be the only thing under our control. Unlike the self-help charlatans of today, Frankl knew what he was talking about – he was a concentration camp survivor.

  26. wudang

    If there where mens clubs where I live like I know there is in places like London and New York I would get a membership. It seems like it can be a great male only space. But of course all the stuff that is outside in society gets brought in there as well.

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  31. Robert

    This is my first encounter with this site and the opinions expressed. I found the above article well written with some keen insights. So too some of the comments below it. If this site is devoted to getting laid at all costs then maybe what I have to say will not be relevant.

    I have been part of a circle of men for 20 years. I have led and coached hundreds of men from many different demographics. I have learned, and been coached by hundreds of men in turn.

    We meet weekly as teams and every 3 months in much larger groups. Our weekly meetings center around a brutal inspection process employing a technique we call ruthless compassion. It means being willing to say to another man what no one else will say. We are bound by a common trial by fire to tell the truth as black and white as we can make it. The process is designed to strip away the daily lies and rationalizations that collect in our minds, which if left to fester result in an affliction known as “Believing Your Own Bullshit”. In the course of doing this work I’ve learned a few things about men. I would value your opinions on what I’ve learned.

    Emotions are perhaps the most powerful part of our survival instincts. We all have them. And we all experience them. We try to control, conceal or repress them at our own risk.

    Men have been consciously and unconsciously taught to deny and be ashamed of having or expressing emotions. That shame and denial starts with the way we are parented and is reflected in every relationship and aspect of our society for the rest of our lives. We view our emotions as weaknesses to be mistrusted and concealed.

    We end up fearing and repressing our emotions which creates myriad physical, psychological, and behavioral problems that distort our lives, our relationships and our society. In addition to the illnesses that result from our emotional repression recent studies suggest that one of the main reasons men die younger is from the stress of emotional repression.

    Because we have no experience with our feelings we have no true knowledge of who we are. Emotions are an essential part of the internal guidance system that helps us navigate and analyze the world around us.

    Because we don’t know how we really feel we don’t really know what we want. Because we don’t know what we want we use other standards on which to base our decisions. Standards like logic, religion, politics, fame, money, women, and what other people opinion. We make up formulas and rules and games because we are not in touch with what we really want. We believe in them because we want to be right.

    We measure who we are, by what we do, and what we have, because we have little internal sense of our self-worth. Who has the highest profile job, the fastest car, the most expensive house, the hottest women, the biggest dick? We attempt to fashion guidelines and rule books to validate our behavior. We are about accomplishments and possessions as opposed to integrity and character. We become more concerned with trying to look like men instead of being men.

    Maybe this is a result of men acquiescing their place in society and the rise of women in power and influence. Maybe this is the result of men forgetting how to father their children. Maybe this is the result of passages into manhood being reduced to getting drunk, or winning a Call of Duty Black Ops tournament. I think it’s a result of men not being able to ask for help because they think that looks weak.

    I believe that real men throughout time created their own definition of a man for themselves. They didn’t care what other people thought because they knew who they were. They weren’t politically correct, metrosexual, bromancers. Their confidence was inherent and sure. It was genetic. I think of men of my father’s generation. They didn’t have to weigh so many options. They didn’t need a rule book or commandments, with all deference to the esteemed Roissy who makes some valid points. They simply were who they were and accepted the consequences.

    Men respect that. Women respect that. People respect that.

    Creating some elaborate game plan to get a woman doesn’t seem very masculine to me. There seems to be a kind of implied neediness. That you have to be something other than you are. You have to learn to act a certain way to get a woman. If you are being true to who you are and she doesn’t like it, she’s not right for you. Move on. My experience is that the closer you are, to being who you really are, the easier it is to get what you really want. Women seek men who know who they are, and don’t need them to feel like men.

    Haven’t you ever met a man with the kind of easy confidence that men just want to be around. They’re natural leaders. There’s no bullshit. Men want to be like them and women just want them. They’re not the best looking or the richest. They don’t have to try, own, or game their way through. They just are who they are. That’s what I’m talking about.

    If you can’t just be who you are, and own that completely, whatever you get won’t last, or be worth it because it’s hollow at the core. It’s The Emperor’s New Clothes. It’s the great and powerful Oz but don’t look behind the curtain. And in my experience you can’t know who you are until you know and accept your emotions.

    Until you do you will always be playing someone else’s game.

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