The Benefits of Lifting Are Not Just Aesthetic

There’s been some discussion in the Manosphere about muscular power as it relates to female attraction. Lifting weights has been a longtime tenet of the game lifestyle from many sources. Athol Kay has weightlifting as the first item in his book’s Ten Steps To The MAP appendix. The more youthful gamers push it hard as the key to maintaining a body that will provide value in the SMP for decades to come. Lifting is critical to maximizing your sex rank, and as you get older and your status and income become more difficult to change, physical fitness can become the most mutable attraction trigger you possess.

My aim in this post is to emphasize a key point about weights: lifting is not just about improving how you look, it’s about improving your fitness and the social and hormonal signals you send to the opposite sex. Thus, lifting is about more than getting ripped muscles that look good in the mirror – even if you’re not getting giant biceps and a six-pack, weights are improving your body.

There certainly is an aspect of being fit that is just aesthetically pleasing to eye – the ripple of muscles, the taper, the lack of a gut. But there’s a reason I put looks and physical fitness in two different categories of my list of attraction triggers. A fit man also indicates good mating potential in more practical ways: he signals good genes to give to the woman’s future child, and portends the ability to provide for, construct for and protect the child (and its mother). In addition, a guy who is in shape and in good athletic control of his body is going to have a better social profile, because people subconsciously respect his improved physical stature and he’s probably giving off direct hormonal messages that he’s virile and ready to get the mating job done. Frost of Freedom Twenty Five put it simply: “you smell like testosterone.” There’s a phenomenon among women called “sexy ugly,” a guy who doesn’t have an alluring physical look but is attractive to women. Social behavior – i.e. game – explains a lot of it, but it’s not all: even an aesthetically unremarkable man can earn points with the hindbrain with his fitness.

The reason I emphasize this difference is that whenever this topic comes up around women, the discussion usually trends toward “how does your body look in a photograph.” Much attention is paid to celebrity photos as examples of what they like (which are prone to mis-attributing personality or status traits to physical ones). A great cacophony ensues as a subset of women insist they don’t like “muscles” and go for “skinny guys.” Part of the debate is just plurality – there is indeed a spread of what women find attractive. But there’s also a bit of wordplay going on. I find when I dig into these discussions, by asking for examples of who they find attractive, that the “skinnylovers” almost always prefer slim-built guys, yes, but slim guys who are strong and hard. Pasty men are not on anybody’s hitlist. What I don’t think women realize is that when meeting men, in the flesh, they are responding not just to his aesthetic look but to his signals of fitness. Thus an “uglier” guy can be more of a turn-on if he’s more fit.

MAY PRETTY LIES PERISH

I am concerned that men will hear this discussion and internalize one or both of these two false messages:

  • Women don’t like muscle-bound men, so you should run or bike instead of lift and try to be as lean as possible
  • You’ll never get to Mr Universe levels of muscle mass, so don’t bother lifting at all

We see both of these messages in game, as well: “game doesn’t work, women would never fall for that crap,” OR “even with game you won’t bang supermodels so why try to improve at all.” The former is simply mendacity; the latter is a defeatist straw man.

This confusion is an occupational hazard of interviewing women about their attraction triggers; not only do you have to deal with rationalization hamsters, you have to deal with vocabulary that doesn’t compute and also with false dichotomies. Lots of women (and some men) regard any discussion of weightlifting to mean bodybuilding and powerlifting, of meatheads throwing fifty-pound dumbbells around a stinky ass gym that doubles as a frat house where pussies who can’t bench their own body weight aren’t welcome. (GLPiggy wrote of Planet Fitness’ strategy to market directly against that stereotype, and how it partially reflects a feminine tactic to run away from and shame uncomfortable social friction. On the other hand, there are some really annoying gym guys.)

Over on the Alpha Game thread, one self-righteous commenter/blogger under the nom de guerre Bob Wallace bleated the following:

Almost all body builders are homosexual, and they do it because they are narcissistic and they do it for each other. Then you have the short guys with the Little Man Complex. Lots of women don’t like muscles and I’ve met many who prefer tall slender guys.

Classic example of the false dichotomy, this was in a discussion about fitness, not about “bodybuilding.” It’s akin to interrupting a discussion about which passenger car has the best gas mileage by saying “those big semi-trucks are major gas guzzlers, you should bike around town instead.”

By the way, the stereotypes of “weights culture” are a important issue in fitness, because the lunkhead stereotypes drive women away from weights, and weights are critically important to both genders’ fitness plans, not to mention much more effective than those stupid elliptical machines. Women need to know that plenty of men lift weights without a grunting hypertrophic approach, and that women can lift weights without engaging in any of that either. Women say “I don’t lift because I don’t want to get big.” It’s just not a real risk for regular women in regular workouts.

Back on the topic, a photograph of Orlando Bloom was floated as an example of a “skinny” guy:

No man versed in athletics would describe him as skinny. I would say he has a slim build and is in good shape. Extremely good shape. Look at the way his deltoid folds into his torso and the complete lack of a gut. He looks like he could play safety.

I think it’s as universal a rule as we can come up with that whatever body type they prefer, women like fitness and tone on a man.

FIT OR FAT, FOR YOUR TYPE

To cut through the vocabulary, I view the issue like this: there are a certain number of basic male bodytypes (the ecto/endo/mesomorph types are one way of indexing them). each woman is programmed to dig certain body types, among the other traits she’s interested in. Within those types, a woman will almost always prefer the fitter example of the type.

If you’re a big guy who puts on weight easily (big bone structures tend to do that), being “not fit” is probably going to mean being chubby. When he eats right and gets in the weight room, he can put some real definition on his very large muscles and look classically “ripped.” Conversely, a slim-build guy may not get a bulging muscular look when  he’s working out, but he will be toned and fit, which can certainly be felt if not seen. However, when he’s out of shape, he won’t look any bigger, but he’ll have a pasty “skinny fat” look and feel that will disgust most women on contact.

GIVE THE BODY AGENDA A HAND UP

Finally, you never really know until you try which of these levels is going to operate on a particular girl (or guy), whether you’ll be judged “sexy ugly” or a “pretty beta.”

Sometimes the body agenda doesn’t kick in until close contact. As I wrote here, I recently dated an attractive, very intelligent, very interesting woman who had one fatal flaw – every time I touched her, my body agenda induced a sense of cum-curdling disgust. It was completely unexpected; I could fantasize about her in my own mind, but when I went to I felt an unshakeable sense of disgust. It felt bad to tell her we should stop dating; it must be what women feel when they have to dump their smart, hardworking, nice, but ultimately non-dominant and unattractive beta male.

Then on the other hand, often I’m drinking casually at a bar or pub, and a girl who was otherwise unremarkable to me will walk past and accidentally bump me, and this tingly shiver will run up my body from my junk to the top of my head. Putting aside the portion of bumps that are not accidental (it’s a key insight of game to realize that so much of the thigh-bumps, boob-rubs, and casual eye contact of women are not accidental at all), it’s a great anecdotal example of the localized nature of attraction – it can get triggered at any point in the entire process.

I find the same thing when women touch me when I am toned and in shape – once they cop a feel of the muscles, their eyes pop out of their head and they’re hooked.

As does another commenter at the Alpha Game thread:

From my experience, women say negative things about muscles until they are able to touch them and feel them from men.

Much more if they experience sex with a muscular guy.

When it’s you who is hoping for that positive reaction up-close, you want to give her body agenda a hand up by being a body her body would want.

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40 Comments

Filed under original research

40 responses to “The Benefits of Lifting Are Not Just Aesthetic

  1. mikec74

    Good stuff.

    Over on the Alpha Game thread, one self-righteous commenter/blogger under the nom de guerre Bob Wallace bleated the following:

    Almost all body builders are homosexual, and they do it because they are narcissistic and they do it for each other. Then you have the short guys with the Little Man Complex. Lots of women don’t like muscles and I’ve met many who prefer tall slender guys.

    LOL. I first saw this guy on HUS, and now I’ve seen him on Alpha Game as well and I think Dalrock. I think he is obsessed with “narcissism” as he mentions it in just about every single comment no matter how tangential to the point. “Almost all bodybuilders are homosexual”. This is hilariously absurd. I’m pretty well acquainted with a lot of people in bodybuilding circles and most men are heterosexual.

  2. Let’s throw the uncomfortable truth out in the open: most blokes lifting weights to get lean and muscular are looking to get girls who have significantly higher SMV than your average HUSsie. I’ve read Vox’s latest blog on this topic and he’s doing his best to not directly make that statement. Someone gotta say it, I’ll be the bad guy.

    And that guy from Alpha Game got it. Women say they don’t like muscles… sure, it’s the same as them saying they don’t like bad boys / jerks.

    The PUAs get it dead right in this type of debates: test it in the field. If it stands up to field testing, it’s valid, end of story. I have field-tested this muscle theory extensively (not on purpose, long story, health related). I’ve been fat, skinny, skinny fat, powerlifter-fat and currently muscled and toned. Guess which body type gets me the hottest girls and most consistent *sexual* attention and attraction (to differentiate with the non-sexual attraction)?

  3. Rowan

    I’m a skinny Indian guy who has been pretty much at the bottom of the social ladder for most of my life. After a mental breakdown earlier this year I started lifting a lot more.

    I’m still “skinny”, but there’s no denying that I’ve gotten more toned and have bulked out a little bit in the last 8 months. The positive responses and the amount of “sideways” glances I’ve been getting from women has definitely increased.

    It has also affected how much shit I’m willing to take from other people (particularly from certain people who used to call themselves my “friends”). It’s weird how people change their attitude when you’re not longer a completely scrawny dweeb but might actually be able throw a decent punch.

  4. Wudang

    Good post! This study which Rollo linked to in a post is relevant:

    http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton/papers/downloads/Frederick_Haselton_2007_Muscularity_sexy.pdf

    While reading that study I looked up a reference in it and found another study that isn`t really relevant to this post but I found very interesting. It found that women rated men as more attractive the more their income increased but only up to 150 000 $. After that there was no more increase but no decrease either. It kinda makes sense but I was surprised:

    http://www.csom.umn.edu/assets/137594.pdf

  5. “Over on the Alpha Game thread, one self-righteous commenter/blogger under the nom de guerre Bob Wallace bleated the following: Almost all body builders are homosexual, and they do it because they are narcissistic and they do it for each other. Then you have the short guys with the Little Man Complex. Lots of women don’t like muscles and I’ve met many who prefer tall slender guys.”

    AHAHAHAHAHAHA. What a frigging moron.

    Like… seriously. AHAHAHAHA. That’s probably the funniest quote I’ve ever read in the Manosphere.

    He is clearly a weakling who has no women actually attracted in him.

    As I wrote here: The first time I was in bed with a girl last year, I was on top of her in a pushup position while we were kissing. She ran her hands up underneath my shirt and over my back and gasped “MMHMM your back!!!!” Her eyes rolled back in her head as she ran her hands over me and then took off my shirt to feel my muscles. Gratifyingly awesome. All the years of hard work at the gym were worth it right then and there.

    http://3rdmilleniummen.wordpress.com/2012/09/13/working-out-power-strength-confidence-and-club-pickup-socialite/

    Great post Badger, keep it coming.

  6. Opus

    There are only two ways in which you as a guy are going to have muscles: 1 You work in manual labour, 2 You go to the Gym. The former says something about your status, the other something about your vanity – not that I am trying to suggest that women do not like muscles. They do: I recall returning to blighty from Liege, Belgium by train and to my jealousy a young woman was pawing a guy saying to him ‘you are like Tarzan’.

  7. mikec74

    There are only two ways in which you as a guy are going to have muscles: 1 You work in manual labour, 2 You go to the Gym. The former says something about your status, the other something about your vanity

    Opus, IIRC you were the Game skeptic/critic as well. So let me see if I understand your takeaway position. Are you basically saying that a guy should take no proactive steps to either increase his physical appearance and personality attributes. Basically whatever he is at time X, just basically stay there with no attempt at self-improvement?

  8. Wudang

    Pookie wrote about this in some of his posts on Sosuave. It can probably be found in the book of Pook (which everyone in the sphere should read, it is some of the best stuff written about game). He described how he increasingly got IOIs and AIs from increasingly hot women the bigger he got AND how as his size increased the IOIs and AIs from the women that had shown him interest decreased and eventually disappeared. The women that had seen him as in his league stopped believing he could be had and so screened him out. He went from reality skinny to really big.

    I belive SMV explains most of this, but I´m open to there being potential for a few rare high SMV to have such a preference. It could be about balancing out her own genes. Such a man might have exactly the immune system that balances out the asymmetries in her own. There might be a correlation with creativity and intelligence that could be beneficial. If he is good looking and high status enough it might be valuable for some girls of high SMV that can gain special benefits by balancing of her genes with his, is looking for a restricted man and perceives his SMV as high because of looks, intelligence, his possible outcome independence, creativity and status gained through this.

    I don`t, at all, believe the brooding loner is any sort of good bet for long lasting monogamy, I believe he is serially monogamous/serially polygamous in most cases. The benefit of his emotionality lies in that he will stick around for the romance long enough to bond to the child and he is emotional enough that he will bond strongly with the child. The brooding loner archetype is a form of of batboy, he is untrustworthy and utterly lacks the beta steadiness and builder solidity that says good life long monogamy bet. He expresses aristocratic romance and aristocratic romance is passionate and emotional but won`t last.

    The brooding loner is a strange form of alpha type and will be doing alpha things but in a more emotional and bonding way. He will do well in peaceful times where the strong masculine alpha types hold less sway, women have a stronger position in tribal life and he can play status games. He does well whenever tribal life is stable enough for them to have a “feminist” phase and serial monogamy becomes a strong feature of tribal life.

    Creative people and artsy people have about twice as many sex partners as average people. They are flaky, unstable, bad at building value over time in a step by step fashion. They are not solid beta material. They are alphas for times where status competition centers around (more female) symbolic value such as who makes the best songs, who sings best, who invents the best dance, who makes the best tribal art, who is the best storyteller. Their utter lack of ability for STAYING with anything over time and desire for peak emotions ONLY means that as the freshness if first romance dies of after 1-3 years they follow their hearts/dick on to the next woman to “love forever”.

    The value compared to a masculine alpha is that the masculine alpha might leave very early on, right after she gets pregnant, or might abandon or invest less in the child. But he is an alpha of sorts and will follow and alpha agenda but a somewhat more long term one.

    It is not only plausible but probably that some such types also has a dose of genes that gives them some steadiness and increased ability to go for the long haul. This would be rare amongst the brooders but just as with alphas some have more of that which makes them stay long term in addition to their alphaness. So although brooders are hopeless marriage prospects just as alphas there will be some exceptions. My bet would be that intellectual brooders have more staying power than artsy brooders.

    Testosterone levels does not just predict behavior on a scale from little to a lot. It is equally important to look at which parts of the brain has been masculinized. I`ve noticed with a good chunk of feminine men that do well with women that although they are feminine in a lot of ways they still have a strong steady gaze and great frame control. They still have a core part of dominance down as long as the dominance is safe and social and far away from physical risk. Take a man such as Prince. He is extremely feminine but according to VD which has met him is very alpha. My impression is the same from seeing him on TV. I think the same goes for most or all great feminine seducers.

    It is also a possibility that the point of the feminine seducers attractiveness is that he has genes to make great female babies. These guys tend to be very good looking facially. In a safe environment muscularity matters less and the slimness and beauty might be great for making a high SMV girl. I`ve seen studies suggest that in certain environments girls are preferred by parents and in other boys are preferred. The safe, aristocratic, feminist periods probably favors girls.

  9. What is the thing women are always looking for in a man??? Confidence!

    Muscles breed confidence. Confidence that you look good, confidence you can protect yourself and others, confidence that no matter what shit test a woman throws at you…it can’t be any worse than that hard workout. Even when I had no game…my confidence came from being in shape plus being tall. Squats, deadlift, and bench…are the exercises I hate the most yet I get all the confidence in the world from doing them.

  10. RG3

    Weight-lifting, along with sleep, is the easiest way to prolong (the enjoyable part of) life. Arguing anything to the contrary is like reading Men’s Health magazine for the pictures.

    Both support the release of HGH and T, which make everything better.

    Now, getting pumped, ripped, and then shaven is vanity. Girls want to reserve vanity for themselves. Thus, they often choose to not be attracted to hairless, chiseled gym wonders.

  11. I mostly agree, except that cardio has serious value. If you have big muscles under pounds of fat, no one will know or care. I’m not saying that lifting should just be ignored, but I think the big guys should focus on cardio for a while, lose that fat, and then shape up with lifting from there.

  12. Reminds me of reading elsewhere the question “Do girls like muscles?” and one female responded – “eeww, big muscles are icky. I only like guys who are toned, like John Cena.”

    Guys, it does get easier, in a sense, as you get older, because the percentage of your “competition” that is totally out of shape vastly increases, especially in today’s America. Keep on lifting!

  13. @ Wudang: I’m a big fan of the Book of Pook. It got me into the Game, essentially. I can verify his observation, although I went from fat to lean & muscular. IOIs from hotter girls, fewer IOIs from previous not-as-hot types. Also, the new IOIs are more sexual in nature as well.

    @ Alpha Mission: that’s a typical broscience mistake. Leanness is mostly to do with your diet. “Cardio” has its place in active recovery and increasing work capacity, but it burns fuck all calories (same with lifting too). Excessive cardio is down right catabolic. It will make you lose weight, but won’t make you leaner because you lose a lot of lean muscle mass first. If you want to get leaner, clean up your diet and learn about nutrition & timing of.

  14. Infantry

    This is again accurate and meets with everything I’ve learned and experienced. Also Candide is right about the gym changing your SMV and resulting IOI’s from various girls.

    I also had similar experiences with girls saying they didn’t like muscular guys while I was skinny. You can bet your arse I saw the same girls’ eyes bulge out when squeezing my bicep and quietly whisper things like ‘you should keep going to the gym Infantry’ with downcast eyes.

    Frankly, I advise all men having difficulty with women to lift weights at the gym for 2 months before seriously looking at any game. The high T, along with the fitter, more attractive body is a double-whammy easily gained from an objective simple activity. Not all guys can quickly pick up social nuance, but you can be damn sure they already know how to lift heavy things. Combine this with buying a nice dress shirt from Industrie or Tarocash and then you can start thinking about hitting on girls.

    You’ve just inspired me to get back there. Thanks.

  15. “I only like guys who are toned, like John Cena.”

    Hahahaha. Keep lifting guys.

  16. The Book of Pook is a tragic tail, in the classical sense. Pook goes from effeminate male to hypermale, and passes through the sweet spot to the point where he can’t maintain a long-term relationship. Well worth reading, but remember to heed the warnings that the classical tragedy offers!

    The problem with weight lifting and body building is that it doesn’t build athleticism. Muscles aren’t intended to be isolated and worked separately from each other, and the typical range of motion in lifts is too short. If you’re going to lift weights, do snatches and clean and jerks and nothing else. Kettlebell lifts are ok too, but stay away from Crossfit and their terrible form — look at Steve Cotter’s DVDs instead and get a GS instructor to work on your form.

    Muscles can be a proxy for athleticism, but women can tell the difference between Arnold clumsily scuttling around on stage and Michael Jordan, just the same as how you can tell the difference between a natural 10 and a women with plastic surgery.

    The picture of Bloom is an excellent example of a cut man who doesn’t look like he does a lot of bicep curls and bench presses. In fact, here’s a list of what he does do:

    http://www.menshealth.com/celebrity-fitness/orlando-bloom

    Pilates, weights, yoga, tennis, and mountain biking. Hrm… so he’s doing weights AND a lot of bodyweight stuff, and you can see it in how long and solid his musculature looks. Again, look at the men women swoon over: Bloom, Brad Pitt, Ryan Gosling, etc.:

    https://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=sexiest+men

    There ain’t no `roided up body builders listed. Georges St. Pierre isn’t a heavyweight either, and he’s easily the most popular MMA star with the ladies.

  17. “The problem with weight lifting and body building is that it doesn’t build athleticism. Muscles aren’t intended to be isolated and worked separately from each other, and the typical range of motion in lifts is too short.”

    What do you think weight lifting actually is?

    Do you think bodybuilders dont’ squat or deadlift or bench? Ever try those while “isolating” muscles? WHat the hell is it with these people that whenever we say “bodybuilders” they think roided up freaks? I’m actually a powerlifter (who also dabbles in weightlifting and KB lifting, plus I do yoga and other sports as well) and love to make fun of bodybuilder mates, but this BS about weight lifting, BBing and athleticism being three separate things is just dumb. They all came from the same physical culture. If your training is retarded and you’re not as athletic or strong as you look, then it’s your specific problem. “Arnold clumsily strutting on stage” has to be the dumbest statement ever. Watch Pumping Iron.

    I train with an athletic club (track n field mostly). What do you think they do outside of sport specific training? Squat, bench, deadlift, the Olympic lifts. That is weight lifting.

    Stop making examples from *famous* celebs. That’s an entirely different kettle of fish, and you don’t actually know how they train or what drugs they take. Glossy gossip mags are not a reliable resource.

    Hang on a sec, do you even lift? lol

  18. Regarding weight lifting and Game,

    The physical aspect:

    I have a quote from Rollo Tomassi on this topic that I feel captures everything that’s needed to be said: “All the fancy Game in the world won’t make you any sexier when you take your clothes off”

    The mental aspect:

    See Henry Rollins’ “Iron” essay. That captures exactly why I and many others bitten by the iron bug lift. We lift for strength – mental and physical – not for looks (although form always follows function). It gives us a certain quiet confidence that feels powerful to us and deadly attractive to women. ;) I always do great with pickups when I go out after a major PB at the gym. I don’t even have to talk much, they can smell the confidence and testosterone.

  19. Mike C

    The Book of Pook is a tragic tail, in the classical sense. Pook goes from effeminate male to hypermale, and passes through the sweet spot to the point where he can’t maintain a long-term relationship. Well worth reading, but remember to heed the warnings that the classical tragedy offers!

    I’ve seen this referenced a number of times now, and I believe Wudang has mentioned it as being a valuable read. Does anyone have a link to get this, or have it in pdf that they could send me?

    The problem with weight lifting and body building is that it doesn’t build athleticism. Muscles aren’t intended to be isolated and worked separately from each other, and the typical range of motion in lifts is too short. If you’re going to lift weights, do snatches and clean and jerks and nothing else. Kettlebell lifts are ok too, but stay away from Crossfit and their terrible form — look at Steve Cotter’s DVDs instead and get a GS instructor to work on your form.

    Compound lifts like deadlift and squat work many muscle groups simultaneously.

    Muscles can be a proxy for athleticism, but women can tell the difference between Arnold clumsily scuttling around on stage and Michael Jordan, just the same as how you can tell the difference between a natural 10 and a women with plastic surgery.

    Not sure that analogy is valid, and it isn’t clear to me whether it is the athleticism that women are actually attracted to or the aesthetic appearance. I still think it is more the latter.

    Pilates, weights, yoga, tennis, and mountain biking. Hrm… so he’s doing weights AND a lot of bodyweight stuff, and you can see it in how long and solid his musculature looks. Again, look at the men women swoon over: Bloom, Brad Pitt, Ryan Gosling, etc.:

    Are you serious here? Bloom, Pitt, Gosling ALL have arguably handsome to very good looking faces, and they have celebrity status as big name actors which trumps everything else. Celebrity status is why ugly rockers get laid with 9s and 10s. There is no way you can use them as examples of the ideal body because most of their attraction isn’t coming from their physiques but from their celebrity status and faces.

  20. Mike C: just type “the book of pook” in Google. It’s a collection of Pook’s top posts on SoSuave forum before he disappeared / retired in 2005. Keep in mind that Pook wrote them mostly from the perspective of a fully developed Don Juan version of himself in the future advising his younger inexperienced self how to get there. It’s a collection of posts but reads like a book for that reason. You’ll see three recurring characters: Don Juan, Young Man and Woman – Young Man failing with Woman and Don Juan showing him the Way. Btw it’s not a “tragedy” like our friend here seems to think (unless you believe the blue pill myth: a man must need a woman in his life to be fulfilled). It’s a journey towards masculine enlightenment.

  21. Max Waters

    Off topic but does anyone know what’s happened at the University of Man? Looks like they’ve been taken down.

  22. FFY

    “most blokes lifting weights to get lean and muscular are looking to get girls who have significantly higher SMV than your average HUSsie”

    Yeah. Any dudes who take anything from that site should get this: Normal, attractive girls don’t need to go online for relationship help. Listen to anything they say with a grain of salt.

    Re: Lifting

    It is the easiest, most enjoyable, and most beneficial to your health way to boost your attractiveness by a point or three. Once you get pretty solid you’ll start to get those girls that gun specifically for your body type. Less work for you.

  23. TSB

    Besides just the “attraction” component of weight lifting, let’s not forgot about the time component as well. It’s just a more efficient way to get in, and stay in shape.

    Last year I trained and ran a half marathon. I enjoyed the challenge, and at first lost weight. But as I trained, I actually ended up gaining weight, and it wasn’t noticeable muscle. I spent hours and hours each week running and training.

    Fast forward a year. I suffered a training injury running and instead had to dedicate myself solely to weight lifting. I’m spending 30 minutes, 2 to 3 times a week, in the gym strictly lifting. Guess what? I’ve lost weight and added definition back to my frame.

    So regardless if women like muscles or not…they like fitness. And if you are a modern man with a job, a life, hobbies and out gaming, you don’t have time to be spending your life schlepping on a cardio machine. Weights are your best and most efficient option.

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  25. Georgia Boy

    As if your point needed any further proving, just consider that being able to pick up and carry your girl is an improvement to your relationship game, and it has nothing directly to do with your body type. Useful for projecting sexually dominant alpha, as most any guy who can do it will attest.

    As for the aesthetics, the chorus of women insisting online that they think bodybuilders are gross, is much like the chorus of women saying big dicks hurt and they don’t want one. (I’m picturing the grapeless fox running the hamster wheel.)

    Whatever taxonomy you want to place the benefits in, it’s most people’s nature to collect status symbols where they can, and a lover that her friends want is one of the best. Girls talk and mentally compare, so it’s useful to develop even alpha traits that aren’t that critical to your current girl. Social proofing, commandment II, and all that.

  26. Georgia Boy

    Generalizing that more, physically strong –> more credibility as the dom –> more and better tingles. If you know your girl well enough to know when she wants not to be asked “uh would you want to,” but physically deposited in bed and arms pinned over her head, well that’s the kind of guy whose texts tend to get returned after midnight. (Gee I’m feeling a bit randy today.)

  27. “As if your point needed any further proving, just consider that being able to pick up and carry your girl is an improvement to your relationship game, and it has nothing directly to do with your body type. Useful for projecting sexually dominant alpha, as most any guy who can do it will attest.”

    Oh yeah…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyXplN23ALM

    Even for new pickup too, if you sense that the girl is up for it. One of my fav was picking this cute Polish girl up and carrying her to a different area of the venue (private party – was noisy at the other end), putting her down and asking: “so what’s your name?” We only just got introduced through a friend.

  28. Looking Glass

    Here’s thousands of pages of biochemistry and exercise science boiled down:
    Fat level is 90% diet. Muscle levels is about Strength work and genetics.

    If you want muscle, you need to work with increasingly heavier weights in functionally useful movements. (I.e. do the 3 main lifts: Bench Press, Deadlift and Squat) Optimal reps for strength increasing is between 5 & 7 (depends a bit on the person). More reps per set will limit strength increases for great endurance increases.

    Lower weight, higher rep exercises help build endurance, but it depends a lot on the exercise. Never do a Lift while on some sort of Ball or Balance Board.

    I would recommend getting a copy of Starting Strength and spend some time reading up from Marten over at LeanGains.

    Combined, that’ll do about 80% of what most people need. The rest is things like stability work (go go Planks), learning how to actually cut carbs and keeping enough protein you can digest in your diet.

    The benefits are both physical (more physical ability), mental (you look like a better version of you), physiological (higher Testosterone levels, along with better sleep and lower stress) and perceptual. And don’t underestimate the feeling you get when you pull off a personal best, accomplish a major goal (like a Planche) or just simply realize how powerful you have gotten. When you realize you pick up 50 pound (25 kg) dumbbell and don’t think much of it, then you realize how it’s like to have power in your hands. It’s a great feeling. Your confidence builds greatly.

  29. gaoxiaen

    Gotta agree with Carnivore. I’ve been lifting and swimming since I was a teenager. I’m 55 and people think I’m 40. No ED (the opposite, actually) but getting some gray hair.

  30. BWAHA!! The Manosphere is a circle jerk. Female solipsism..doesn’t exist. It’s narcissism. Alphas and Betas don’t exist. They’re terms related to canines. Hamsters…pathetic.

    By the way, 90% of grotesquel- built bodybuildrers are homosexual.

    You’re a bunch of fools who have swallowed the Blue Pill of the Manosphere and think you’re free. You’re not. You’ve exchanged one Matrix for another.

    Most of you have never learned how to be men. All you can do is imitate a bunch of self-appointed experts. Roissy, etc….buffoons.

    Now start the ad hominem attacks. It’s all the Lost Boys of the Manosphere can do.

  31. Pingback: LIGFY – November Savings Time | Society of Amateur Gentlemen

  32. Revo Luzione

    Bob, we don’t need to deluge you with ad hominem attacks, you’ve done a fine job of discrediting yourself. You’ve already committed the ad hominem, and you offer nothing but proof by assertion. Therefore, your voice is nothing but a fart in the vast hall of a cathedral.

  33. lemmiwinks

    My story with lifting started with me getting “mouse arm” or some sort of carpal tunnel syndrome from being on a computer up to 14 hours some days. I could no longer use my right arm with my mouse due to numbness and pain. I tried changing my posture and switching to weird ball devices and even tried a left handed mouse but nothing worked. I went to a bunch of doctors who all gave me a bunch of bs until I found one who told me to get a gym membership and pump iron. I followed his advice and within 3 months my mouse arm was cured. I haven’t had pain or numbness since. It also turned out my body was made for lifting and I love it.

    5 years and over 70 pounds of muscle later lifting is now my main hobby. Now my main challenge at work is being all swole as a software engineer. The accounting ladies and marketing ladies love me but the other nerds I work with in IT are scared of me until they get to know that I’m not going to bully them or take their lunch money or something.

    Also Bob Wallace is totally projecting, I’m sure he’s a fag himself. At my gym the majority of the body builders are gang-bangers and they are built for intimidation reasons. The rest do it for the challenge or as a hobby or to get women. I don’t know a single gay body builder. Maybe in San Fran or something there is some sort of percentage but otherwise that is just trolling.

  34. rgoltn

    When you are fit and strong, you feel great, look great and fuck awesome. Period.

  35. Mina

    What’s your theory / thoughts on older, married women lifting weights? as in seriously lifting weights (thinking about participating in masters power-lifting competitions.) I was a competitive body builder in college and dated mostly other body builders and power lifters (yes, all male) until getting married. Curious as I am trying to work through some cognizance problems I am having since the discovery of “game” and anti-feminism & am interested for personal reasons (obviously.)

  36. Anonymous Reader

    Weight-lifting, along with sleep, is the easiest way to prolong (the enjoyable part of) life. Arguing anything to the contrary is like reading Men’s Health magazine for the pictures.
    Both support the release of HGH and T, which make everything better.

    +1 on this. HGH is part of the repair kit for the body. T is what makes us men. Take T down too far and all muscles atrophy and stop. The heart is a muscle…

    But wait, there is more. As men, we do physical things, we lift and move and bash and drag and pick up and put down all manner of things.

    The human body has redundancy in some systems. When we let muscles get weak, and then demand that they do something (like hammer for hours a day, or waft a wench away out a door), the muscles that aren’t up to the task are backstopped by connective tissue – tendons, maybe even cartilage.

    The body is getting done what needs to be done, but later on it will remind you “that was too much of a load”. If you do that enough times – and N = 2 may be enough – you get a pain that won’t go away for a while and comes back every time you do any number of daily tasks. And that stinks. Fail to take care of it, and you may start having it wake you up at night – 400 mg of ibuprofin may be a good idea for specific pains, but when a man finds himself taking that every night before bed, this is a clue that things are not right.

    Like other men, I have spent too many years driving a chair, and last year I decided to build a small structure for some friends. Muscling the hammer instead of letting it do the work led to tennis elbow. I’m coming off of 6 months of various forms of physical therapy, and finally cleared to lift something heavier than 3 pounds with my right arm again. If I’d had the brains to continue my rather modest lifting program of a few years back, I wouldn’t be in this situation. I’m pretty much building back from near zero.

    You get one body issued to you. It has to last your life. Taking care of the equipment – be it vehicle, firearm, saws, or ye olde bod – is something men do. Lifting is part of long term maintenance, and the bonuses paid off in other ways are amply demonstrated in this thread.

    Plus, it annoys insecure pinheads like Bob Wallace. Win-win-win-win all around.

  37. High muscularity and feats of strength are masculine. There is a reason women have naturally higher bfp than men, and also why the minimum healthy bfp for women is much higher than for men. A woman who is too muscular is Bio mechanically signaling infertility, and a poor mating choice for a man.

  38. Candide

    Had a lifting comp on the weekend that I did very well at, hitting a few PBs. Went out that night smelling like testosterone, and I was like a chick magnet lol. Women reacted very physically in my presence. Lost count how many times I got my arse grabbed or how many arses I grabbed. I barely ran any game as I was mostly dancing and drinking to celebrate. In the end it came down to a leggy redhead (my usual weakness) and a swedish blonde… both had guys all over them but were very open to me when I said hi. Swede it was, cos my previous swedish flags dyed their hair dark lol The redhead might still be on for later this week though.

    So go squat and deadlift heavy, fellas.

  39. Pingback: Manosphere: Style (Dress, Hair and Body) (Part 2) | 3rd Millenium Men

  40. Hell yeah!! If you want to improve your life, get laid or just generally have succes, you should definitely lift weights!
    If people dont lift weights or do competitive sports, I dont really have much respect for them…
    Sports and lifting has definitely been a big part of my succes with women too (:

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