Just Go After Whoever You’re Interested in

Like most recovering betas, through focused introspection I have discerned some patterns from my old days that consistently sabotaged my social life and kept me from pursuing women I was interested in. Among them were:

  • Thinking “she’s so hot/cool/high-value, why would she be interested in me? What do I have to offer her?”
  • Thinking “I should just punch within my league, because they’ll be easier to attract and keep.”

These imaginary barriers prevented and demotivated me from opening and pursuing probably dozens of potential mates. I seriously doubt I am alone in this. I have found both these assumptions to be seriously flawed, at least partly due to the following factors:

1. Entitlement and pouty attitude are more or less uniformly distributed across the SMV spectrum. Sure we expect hot women to act like princesses (why again do we tolerate it from anybody?), but you’ll find them anywhere on the ladder. In particular, I’ve found that women who were not hot or “popular” in high school often carry that chip on their shoulder for a long time, even though they grow in attractiveness in their 20′s or had a style that didn’t fit into the rigid high school social paradigm. This goes double for “smart” girls who are averse to flirting because they think it makes them bimbos, in the same way that confirmed betas don’t want to act dominant because they think it makes them douchebags. There is a (controversial) line of thought in manosphere circles that plainer women have built up their psychological health without the crutch of male attention, and thus can be tougher to attract despite being objectively lower in “league.” And most women today have been raised to think they are awesome, full stop.

Let me be clear: my point is not that all women are pouty and entitled; it’s that no matter her SMV, a woman is not automatically going to be pleasant and grateful for your interest, even though sexual marketing game theory dictates that she should work her personality to compensate for looks. Cutting yourself off from a certain segment of the field is not going to make the protection shields, fitness tests and curled noses go away. And on the other hand, plenty of high-value women think they are low-value and thus respond to your value better than you might expect.

2. The concept of one’s “league” is a non-sequitur when it comes to attraction. People are attracted to what they are attracted to. There’s no programming inside our brains that makes us most attracted to people in our sphere of attractiveness. Obviously our genes want us to get the best deal possible, and also allow for some variety for genetic diversity’s sake. Hypergamy is a good working rule to first order, but there are plenty of educated women who have a thing for rough blue-collar guys, women who are comfortable dating outside their race, and other crossups of assortive mating. In other words, you should never believe you don’t have a chance with someone because of her age, class or social environs. Even if they are exceptions to the rule, the sample size of a young man living in or near a large first-world city is so large that you will run into these exceptions on a fairly regular basis.

Now when it comes to a relationship, an equally-yoked pairing is likely to be the most stable and mutually satisfying arrangement (Roissy recommends a twist on this, where the man is higher in social status and the woman is higher in looks status, so that neither can realistically count on getting a better deal from a third party.)

3. Lots of hot women don’t get approached as much as you’d think. If you talk to attractive women, they’ll tell you they get a lot more ogling than true approaching – where I define an approach as looking her in eye and talking to her without drooling or stuttering. A lot of really good-looking women will feign the princess act as a fitness test, but really can’t stand being pedestalized and supplicated. They want a dude to approach them who won’t do those things. Be that guy!  You don’t have to be a super-alpha to do this with an attractive woman.

4. Everybody needs to be gamed. I don’t mean you should aim to seduce every woman you meet. It’s a sure sign of lame game if a guy only runs it on the women he’s interested in, and doubly lame if a guy has no discrimination in his pursuits. What I mean is if you approach a pair or a group of women, you’re going to have to be socially dynamic with all of them, and with male friends too if they have them (in a nonsexual way of course). And many times, the “target” begs off but another woman responds to your game in a happy twist of events. Or a third party outside the set sees your skills in action and it trips her preselection sensor.

5. Sometimes you just get lucky. You really don’t know what a woman wants and whether you’re it until you approach. For whatever hindbrain reasons nobody understands, you might be just what she’s looking for.

There is a key male-female difference here female readers need to be especially aware of.

When a girl goes after a guy out of her league, he might pump her and dump her, with the concomitant emotional and social (and possibly medical) damage that results. I don’t have a detailed solution to this problem except to say that sexual and relationship escalation need to proceed in lockstep counterpoint, you can’t give one entirely and then expect the other to be provided.

When a guy goes after a woman who is out of his league, the worst he’ll get is no, or she might string him along as beta provider if he doesn’t have enough game to discern what’s going on. And a man of good game knows not to activate a woman’s isolation anxiety* by asking her out for a formal date where she’s stuck with him for hours, giving her things, or frequent communication. These steps avoid social consequences like getting tagged as a creep or “hitting on” her**.

So get out there and start approaching, and don’t worry about picking optimal targets; just approach whoever strikes your fancy and go from there.

*Credit to Athol Kay for this term, which he analogized to male approach anxiety. [edited from original to reflect proper nomenclature.]

**Aside: it’s interesting how the verb “to hit on” has a connotation of unwanted intrusion; in reality it means “an unattractive or low-game man approached me.” If the guy is attractive and she wanted to talk to him, she won’t say she’s been hit on. It’s all part of the female subtextual language men need to understand.

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62 Comments

Filed under beta guide, dating and field game

62 responses to “Just Go After Whoever You’re Interested in

  1. Thanks for the link love and hat tip Badger…Women isolated with men they don’t feel a positive sexual interest for, feel creeped out.

  2. whiteboykrispy

    “Thinking “she’s so hot/cool/high-value, why would she be interested in me? What do I have to offer her?”

    This is one of the most important things dudes need to get over, for real. I used to have this in spades, and I know I wasn’t alone.

    Banish that thought altogether, for even if you do approach after thinking that, you will be overvaluing her already.

    Good post, Badger.

  3. detinennui32

    Excellent post, Badger. We all need to read and re-read this.

  4. Confidunce

    This is information I really could have used ten years ago.

  5. Badger – Great post with a lot of well-written posts. You should get a Twitter account.

  6. SayWhaat

    it’s interesting how the verb “to hit on” has a connotation of unwanted intrusion; in reality it means “an unattractive or low-game man approached me.”

    So when I hit on men, that means I’m an unattractive woman?

    D:

  7. udolipixie

    a woman is not automatically going to be pleasant and grateful for your interest,

    I really agree this rather than rejection is why guys are afraid to go after an out of league girl despite guys having a more realistic chance of getting a more attractive partner because they’re male.

    Guys need to stop expecting women to be receptive or pleasant about their interests.

  8. rob

    I’ve noticed the exact opposite of the conventional wisdom. In my experience, more attractive women are a lot nicer and more interesting people than less attractive women. I think it’s partly biological: everyone likes attractive and prolly always has. It’s partially heritable, but we aren’t all hot. Taken together, it’s likely that attractiveness is an indicator of mutational load. There are enough genes active in various systems that genetic differences that cause ugly will tend to cause behavioral and mental differences. Intelligence and attractiveness covary, contra conventional wisdom. If I weren’t lazy, I’m sure I could find papers showing that sanity and attractiveness correlate. On the social side, really pretty women from the middle class and up have charmed lives compared to everyone else, so why would they be bitter?

  9. sestamibi

    This advice is GOLD.

  10. sestamibi

    Er, I meant Badger’s advice is gold (although Rod Stewart’s is too!)

  11. johnnymilfquest

    I see Krispy has commented this part as well:

    “she’s so hot/cool/high-value, why would she be interested in me? What do I have to offer her?”

    I used to suffer from that. The trick for guys is to let her worry about what she wants and just go after what YOU want.

    If she won’t let you have it, never mind. There’s no harm in asking.

  12. OffTheCuff

    So when I hit on men, that means I’m an unattractive woman?

    No, you’re attractiveness has zero to do whether you hit on a guy or not,.

    But you’re totally missing the point though. Badger says if a man is unattractive then an approach is often called “he hit on me” or “he’s a creep”, but the same exact approach from an attractive man isn’t termed like that. It’s not the action hitting on a woman at all makes him unattractive. It’s all context-dependent — if you are attractive and do it in the right way, then anything goes. It’s the whole plausible-deniability thing, combined with looks and charm.

  13. SayWhaat

    @ OTC:

    I got the point…it was a joke…lol

  14. OffTheCuff

    My mistake, then. (Or improve your delivery ;)

  15. If you talk to attractive women, they’ll tell you they get a lot more ogling than true approaching – where I define an approach as looking her in eye and talking to her without drooling or stuttering.

    I’ve noticed, while walking around with extremely attractive women, that they’re oblivious to a lot of the stares they get. There I am, keeping them company, seeing a guy nearly rear-end a city bus as he stares, another guy walks by and looks back over his shoulder, yet another smiles, not knowing that his smile will go undetected, because the beautiful young woman is staring straight ahead, determinedly ignoring all ogling.

    In theory, yes, they know they’re being stared at. But many feel very uncomfortable being looked at/objectified in this way. So they put blinders on. They don’t even see it. Yet they would welcome a friendly interaction. Very attractive women who are not narcissists, when you can find them, are underappreciated. Give it a shot.

  16. “Yet they would welcome a friendly interaction…Give it a shot.”

    Exactly. Don’t just give it a shot – own it. They desperately want a guy to talk to them who is not possessed by their beauty or status. In fact, a guy who’s a bit bemused about the whole thing.

    This is what the gamers have tapped into – they have formulated ways to explicitly communicate lack of interest and lack of pedestalization. In reality, they give women what they want – an opportunity to relax.

    People say game is fake. I actually believe that, done right, game is a path to the authentic – only a preemptive show of status will allow a guy the leeway to “be himself” without getting blown out, and good comfort game is the way to get women to drop their pretenses and be “real” themselves.

  17. “So when I hit on men, that means I’m an unattractive woman?”

    Well, we men are visual creatures – we’d have to see the pictures.

  18. Great post. But – - sorry- – -SMV?

    I think I need a glossary!

  19. SMV = sexual market value.

  20. detinennui32

    @ Badger, Susan: One of Roissy’s 16 Commandments is : Ignore her beauty.

    Why? A couple of reasons, I think.

    (1) it keeps the man focused on his game and not her body.

    (2) It lets the woman relax, as Badger and Susan say.

    (3) physically beautiful women hear so often from men about how beautiful they are, that every time they hear it they usually correctly conclude the man is coming on to them, and they have elaborate bullet proof protection shields as a result. If she’s not hearing platitudes about her looks from a guy she’s talking to, the shields don’t go up, or at least they go down easier (heh).

    (4) it keeps her off the pedestal in his mind and hers.

  21. SayWhaat

    Well, we men are visual creatures – we’d have to see the pictures.

    Nice try.

  22. udolipixie

    @detinennui32
    What would be a better solution would be to not let beauty be the #1 factor but men are visual creatures.

    After all a beautiful woman who doesn’t know her beauty or a beautiful woman whose not a narcissist is the number one choice.

    Ignoring her beauty is just pretending you’re overlooking it.

    Just like guys who approach extremely attractive women and attempt to game their way pretending the fact she’s beautiful isn’t why they approached.

  23. detinennui32

    Pixie: It would be nice if beauty and looks weren’t #1. But we have to live in the world we’re given and deal with the human natures we’re given.

    The nature of men to be looks oriented toward women served women well in the Marriage 1.0 scenario. Most men find most women sexually attractive. IOW, a man can find something sexually attractive about almost every woman he sees. This meant that under the old rules, just about every woman who wanted a husband could get one if she made it known she was in the market for one. .

    Under the new rules, female 5s and 6s sleep with, but almost never marry, male 9s and 10s. Why? In the brave new world of female carousel riders postponing marriage, women want those men and by deploying sex, can get those men for pump & dumps or a few months. But those men don’t commit. Why? Under the new rules feminism foisted on us all, these men have options. The women’s options are limited to sex, but not marriage, with alphas. The alpha men get whatever they want — quickie sex, hit it & quit it, FWBs, or a series of STRs. The beta men — about 80% of men — get almost nothing.

    Then, when these women decide they want to settle down in their late 20s or early 30s, they’ve racked up quite a partner count and are considerably less attractive to a male 5 or 6 who is actually in her league.

    It’s not ideal, but it’s the world the feminists wanted. (Geez. I feel like I keep saying the same things over and over again.)

    Pixie: “a beautiful woman who doesn’t know her beauty or a beautiful woman who’s not a narcissist is the number one choice”.

    Well, yes, but I’ve never met such a woman. It’s not overstating it to say that many women nowadays who are actually 5s or 6s believe they are 9s and 10s. Nearly every woman I’ve met who really is in the 9 -10 range is fully aware of that fact. I met one woman, a solid 8, who I dated for four years. When I broke up with her because she was fitness testing me to beat the band, she was stunned. She said to me “no one’s ever broken up with me before. Never.” She had always been able to use her appearance and her sexual attraction to her advantage. She was so accustomed to getting her way, doing whatever she wanted, and boyfriends dancing to her tune, that she just couldn’t believe a man would refuse to put up with her games.

    These women know any man who talks to them is probably coming onto them, especially in a social setting. I can’t tell you how many LJBFs I heard from these women. Out of my league. After a few tries I just gave up. .

    “Ignoring her beauty is just pretending you’re overlooking it”

    It’s not pretending. It really is igorning her looks so that the obvious is out of the way and so that you can get about the business of getting to know her and finding out if there is interest. .

    A woman accustomed to lots of male attention because of her appearance gets lots of fawning, drooling attention. She hears things like “you’re so hot” and “you’re gorgeous”, thinking that this will somehow charm her into bed. It doesn’t. These women routinely say it’s a turnoff to hear endless compliments about their looks, especially from men they’ve just met. A lot of these men are so distracted by her looks that they get immediately stupid, and can’t say anything other than compliments about her appearance.

    Pixie, you seem offended or surprised that men would approach a physically very attractive woman because of that fact, but then ignore her appearance. Of course they approach her because they find her attractive. It’s just that we’re not choosing to call attention to her appearance outwardly. No one’s pulling the wool over anyone’s eyes. No one’s defrauding anyone here. It’s simply playing by the rules feminism put in place.

  24. detinennui32 FTW.

    i’ve always said that i’m VERY unable to pontificvate game well. you sir….are GOLD. fawning over a woman’s physical beauty is a dead end. of COURSE i’m talking to her because i find her attractive, but i’m also trying to navigate her personality to discover if i even WANT to try and take it further. this is where a lot of women blow it.

    yes……yer pretty, get the eff over it. i can’t/won’t/don’t wanna bang you for 23 hours a day. BE INTERESTING as well as attractive. hot but boring is an epic fail. unless you’re a “pump and dunp” alpha. then you’re a target.

  25. udolipixie

    @detinennui32
    So it’s not truly ignoring her beauty but taking her beauty into account (by not calling it into account you’re not ignoring it) and looking for more than beauty.

    No offense here it just seemed quite fraudulent to approach based on attraction then try to dry to deny the reason you approached by ignoring it.

  26. udolipixie

    @detinennui32

    I meant that a beautiful woman who doesn’t know her beauty or a beautiful woman who’s not a narcissist is the number one choice not that such women exist.

  27. Pip

    Attractive women get approached all the time. I’m not sure where the idea that they don’t caught on. I’ve seen this firsthand for almost twenty years. The hottest girls I know got plenty of attention from guys even while with other guys, unless they were with extraordinarily large, strong, and intimidating guys.

    Nearly all guys would look, and a smaller percentage would approach, shielded with striped shirts and armed with their neg hits.

    Away from my observations, the hottest women I have known reported getting hit on by hundreds of men per year. I saw no reason to doubt them because I observed some of it while we were out together. There are plenty of men who are not intimidated by highly attractive women who already appear to be with a man.

    I think that “Friar Wally” was right when he said: “Unless a attractive woman stays home all the time, has no job, has no friends or is in a convent, there is a really slim chance that she is unattached or has no suitors. If she is truly dateless, then it is by choice. Most likely she is being very selective. The contention that there are many gorgeous, lonely women is a myth and/or rationalization spread by losers. One need only look around to see the real truth.” http://losernet.tripod.com/monk1.html

  28. udolipixie-

    what detinennui32 is saying is to not make such a fuss over a woman’s physical beauty. and if you’re approaching a very beautiful woman make no mention of it to her i.e.- “i just saw you from across the way and thought to myself what a beuatiful woman you are, i just had to come talk to you.” make sense? find something ELSE to talk about with her, ANYTHING. just don’t bring up how physically attractive you find her.

  29. udolipixie

    @dannyfrom504
    It’s the ignoring part that confused me.

    Of course you find her attractive why try to pretend or downplay it.

    The fact is that no fuss should be made no matter how attractive the girl is because if she’s smart she knows that’s why you approached.

    @Dex
    Quite a good pic to not take guys/relationships seriously.

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  31. NMH

    Kind of disagree with point one; I think it depends if you are alpha or beta: allow me to explain. First off, I’m definitely a beta. I engage in ball room dancing and have been snubbed by women multiple times–if she snubs me once, I excuse her for having a bad day. If she snubs me twice, I throw her on my “will not dance with” list.

    Almost all of the women on that list are excellent dancers who are very attractive, so they have very high SMV.

    What I have witnessed is that women with high SMV need tighter game to keep them docile. Low SMV women will put up with a lot betaness, high SMV put up with little betaness. So if you are a natural alpha, your #1 rule is correct. But if you are not, it will not apply because the higher SMV women will grow impatient with your betaness and release their inner tiara waring bitch much faster than a low SMV woman will, on average,

    The women that are hte real class acts are the ones that may not like betaness, but will keep their inner bitch to themselves, and still try to work with you to become a better man. Good luck finding one of those.

  32. NMH-

    i dated a prefossional dancer (actually 2) and she responded well to “alpha characteristics”. this girl was drop dead gorgeous. but she KNEW, didn’t think, but KNEW, i’d drop her ass in a second and that i had other girls flirting with me. she liked that i wasn’t jealous of her dancing (most of the guys in her group were gay or married). so i really didn’t care. now i liked her, we had good chemisty but what she said she liked most about me was that i never got jealous about her dancing (being surrounded by other guys).
    but i most certainly wasn’t a chest thumping alpha 24-7. i was quite beta with her most of the time.
    what ended it for us was she was more into the dancing than into the relationship. i finally told her, “i’m looking for a life partner, you’re looking for a salsa partner, i think we need to just let this go.” we talk ocassionally, and she’s had 3-4 boyfriends since. coincidentally, i’m the only guy who’s broken up with her. i wonder if that’s why she still keeps in contact with me. :/

  33. udolipixie

    @NMH
    The women that are hte real class acts are the ones that may not like betaness, but will keep their inner bitch to themselves, and still try to work with you to become a better man. Good luck finding one of those.

    I thought you put low SMV women put up with a lot of betaness.
    So wouldn’t they be real class acts?

  34. “No offense here it just seemed quite fraudulent to approach based on attraction then try to dry to deny the reason you approached by ignoring it.”

    I find this hilarious. By both nature and nurture, women have dozens of deceptive mechanisms with regard to the opposite sex – concealed ovulation, plausibly-deniable communication, fitness testing, makeup/clothing, and the all-powerful rationalization hamster. Most of these we men don’t see as malicious, we just deal with them.

    Yet according to you, if a man dares to approach a woman without giving verbal deference to her looks, he’s committing a fraudulent act. For a man to speak to a woman without prostrating himself before her beauty is some form of violence.

    You sound butthurt that detiennui and I are advocating kicking those pedestals away. But we are already too philosophical. This is all about results – a man needs to be interesting when talking to a woman (and give off the vibe that she’s interesting which is why an interesting guy like him is talking to her), and paying noticeable attention to her looks does not make a man interesting. There’s no “pretending to ignore it” going on, we’re just not ceding the floor to her because she looks good. If we did that, she’d lose interest and we’d have to eject.

    If you think women want to be approached by men saying “I just wanted to say hi because you’re so beautiful” you are completely unfamiliar with the male experience. Those of us paying attention learned long ago that getting hung up on a woman’s looks was a one-way ticket to rejection and a date with our hand. (My general advice is to just refrain from commenting on a woman’s looks at all. You may tease her wardrobe or nail polish, but discussing the body itself is just too risky in either direction. Too easy to insult her by accident or to come across as another horny guy.)

  35. udolipixie

    @Badger
    “Yet according to you, if a man dares to approach a woman without giving verbal deference to her looks, he’s committing a fraudulent act. For a man to speak to a woman without prostrating himself before her beauty is some form of violence.”

    No where did I say guys should make a verbal statement.

    I just thought it was ridiculous to approach and then try to play like you didn’t approach because she was attractive to you.

    I thought it was ridiculous to try to ignore the fact the you find her attractive in some attempt at a power play.

    “You sound butthurt that detiennui and I are advocating kicking those pedestals away.”

    No butthurt on my side.

    Funny how you get complimenting or acknowledging beauty = pedestal

    I just find it fraudulent to try to ignore the main reason you approached in an attempt to downplay it.

    “If you think women want to be approached by men saying “I just wanted to say hi because you’re so beautiful” you are completely unfamiliar with the male experience. ”

    Never said I thought that.

    Never gave any hint that could lead to that.

    You seem to be making a lot of assumptions.

    My intention is that it’s silly to try to approach on attraction then try ignore something you find a quality in a partner or downplaying it in some attempt at a power play.

  36. “I just thought it was ridiculous to approach and then try to play like you didn’t approach because she was attractive to you.”

    I don’t understand what you want, maybe you could compose a hypothetical conversation to illustrate?

    It’s rude (and a game fail) for a guy to approach an attractive woman and instead of having an interesting, low-key conversation, ogle her or make comments about her looks.

    “Funny how you get complimenting or acknowledging beauty = pedestal”

    I didn’t make it up – it’s empirical proof. You’re not listening to the experiences of men on this very thread. The fact is that in almost all cases complimenting => rejection.

  37. udolipixie

    @Badger
    Conversation?

    I was talking about the mindset not what you say unless that mindset crossed over into insulting her or downplaying your attraction to her or downplaying her looks.

    It’s more of the mindset of ignoring something you find a quality & the reason you approached in attempt to play power games.

    No need to broadcast it but don’t pretend that it’s of no importance to you.

    Oh I know compliment = rejection in most cases and in all cases to me (I’m quite sick of them) it just doesn’t equal pedestal for me.

  38. udolipixie-

    sorry bro, but complimenting a woman you don’t know equals pedestalizing. your early encounters with a woman should be a screening process to see if the woman is even someone you’d want to spend time with. fawning over her looks will leave you dead in the water.

    “play power games?” if those words even enter your mind when you approach a woman you find attractive……you’re over playing you hand.

    i think you’re over thinking this. talking to girls should be fun, not a chore. the minute talking to a girl i approach becomes work……i bail.

  39. detinennui32

    (looking back over his previous comments, detinennui32 realizes how cynical he sounds. will work on this in the future.)

    Pixie: We’re not saying that we pretend that looks are of no importance. I think you’re getting hung up on semantics here.

    We’re not saying that they are of no importance, nor is there any pretending going on. There’s no fraud or pretense here. There is only that which is spoken and that which is unspoken.

    It’s an unwritten principle that men don’t approach or spend time with a woman unless something has attracted him to her. Almost all the time that something is her physical appearance. He likes the way she looks to him. Men are hardwired that way. In my experience women know this. The point is: men like women’s appearances. Women know this. (all caps alert for emphasis warning) I think a woman knows that if a man is spending time with her, trying to get to know her, SHE KNOWS that he finds her physically attractive. He knows it. She knows it. So why talk about it? And why talk about it at the attraction stage, where getting past the initial hurdles is difficult enough?

    So if he’s hot for her body, and she instinctively knows this, there is no need for him to say that. There’s no need for him to tell her how hot he thinks she is. Giving verbal reinforcement to it makes him put her on a pedestal where she doesn’t belong and where she does not want to be. During the attraction stage pedestalization and obsequious fawning over her looks makes her very uncomfortable, especially if men compliment her on her looks all the time. All women–even very good looking ones–are self-conscious about their appearances.

    And to boot, complimenting women on their looks doesn’t work. It doesn’t break down the protection shields or the fitness tests. It doesn’t get her to open up. It doesn’t build trust or rapport. And it doesn’t get women into bed. We are simple creatures who tread the path of least resistance. If all it took to get a girl into bed is to tell her how hot she is, that’s what every one of us would do.

    And Pixie: You said “Compliment = rejection.” Exactly. That’s why it’s not verbalized. And all I’m saying is that we don’t need to give voice to what everyone already knows.

  40. udolipixie

    Awesome the wording aka the ignoring bit is what confused me.

    To me don’t broadcast the attraction would be a better way to word the message.

    It’s common sense that complimenting is unnecessary & actually counter productive me since there’s no need for complimenting because approaching means attraction so there’s no need to broadcast it.

    That’s why I didn’t get the whole ignoring bit because it didn’t really go with the general knowledge.

    Thanks for the clear up.

    Lol for getting a girl into bed complimenting isn’t necessary just money & an escort service.

  41. detinennui32 is SO on point. he needs to start his own blog. glad he was able to set pixie straight. i was getting frustrated.

    great advice (as always) brother.

  42. udolipixie

    @dannyfrom504
    Set me straight there would have been no misunderstanding if the message was worded better.

    It’s common sense to not broadcast your attraction however to me there is a difference between broadcasting & ignoring.

    I’m not seeing the point of a blog about common sense in modern dating pretty sure most guys know compliments = rejection & there’s no need to broadcast how attractive you think she is.

    At least I hope they are.

  43. After I went surfing yesterday, I was standing on the pier there in Seaside. I saw this PRETTY Latina walk by. She took a spot along the fence-alone-watching the ocean. I approached her and talked to her for a while. I didn’t run any game on her; I didn’t do any ‘routines’ or anything like that. All I did was talk to her much like I would a guy. The only exception I made was to compliment her when she told me she had a 15 y/o daughter; I told her she didn’t look OLD enough to have a daughter that age-and she didn’t.

    I think I could have gotten her number, but I didn’t ask for it. I’d bet that I could have gotten a date with her if I’d tried, but I didn’t. Why? One, she lives too far from me. Two, her world view is too far apart from mine; she worked for two, famous Democrat politicians in NJ, while I’m a Tea Partier; that won’t work! Three, she’s a single mom with a teenage daughter; though I didn’t find out WHY she was in that state, it was nevertheless a concern, because kids pose extra challenges.

    Even so, what you said is true; if you see someone you like GO FOR IT! You never know how she’ll respond until and unless you try.

  44. detinennui32

    Picie said: ” I’m not seeing the point of a blog about common sense in modern dating pretty sure most guys know compliments = rejection & there’s no need to broadcast how attractive you think she is.” .

    Actually, no. Most guys don’t know “compliments=rejection”. And most guys don’t know not to tell a girl how attractive he thinks she is. Most guys with little or no game think they can compliment their way into a woman’s bed.

    One bit of bad advice I got from my mom was that girls love compliments from men, men should compliment all women liberally, and that all women respond positively to compliments from all men.

    This is why no man should ever take dating advice from any woman –especially not his mother.

    Pixie, don’t take this as a slam, but I have to conclude that you don’t know much about today’s sexual marketplace and the dating advice that boys and men grow up hearing from (feminist) women.. That is probably not your fault. The fact that you’re here and at other manosphere sites means you want to learn, and that’s good.

    Most men get bad advice like what I listed above, and most of it comes from women, manginas and white knights. But most men don’t know that this advice is not intended for them. It is geared to men who women ALREADY find attractive.

    From my experience, when I was single I did better with women when I just went my own way and largely ignored women; or when I did date I didn’t care about the outcome. What I did not know, and what was not explained to me, was that being at my best got some woman to notice me. Just by being myself I was running game on women and I didn’t even know it.

    My failures always happened when I started consciously trying to control the outcome. Hamhandedly trying for a same night lay. Trying to get her to go out with me. Forcing intimacy before building attracting. Making heavy sexual demands. Trying to please her and make her like me.

    Where Badger is doing the Lord’s work is by explaining it, expounding on it and giving names to it.

    Inner game is the answer.

  45. detinennui32

    danny504: always good to see you round. Just trying to help.

    Thanks brother.

  46. Bb

    @udolipixie “I’m not seeing the point of a blog about common sense in modern dating pretty sure most guys know compliments = rejection & there’s no need to broadcast how attractive you think she is.”

    If that were the case, there would be no Game blogs at all. But there are many, with a lot of readers. Most men AND women don’t know how the SMP works. We all need the red pill. Even a married gal like me learns something new for my own relationship every day.

  47. udolipixie

    @detinennui32

    Actually women love compliments is good advice.

    Trying to compliment you way into bed is a bad way to go about it.

    Especially since you can just pay a hooker/escort for sex.

    How come guys don’t see well if they love it I should hold back on it so that it doesn’t come of in genuine or become white noise after hearing compliments so much?

    When I find out someone love a meal I make it on special occasions not everyday and I don’t make it on every special occasion.

    This is where no offense your mother should have told you for something women love most due to insecurity it’s best to give in low doses after you felt that it was earned.

    “This is why no man should ever take dating advice from any woman –especially not his mother. ”

    I agree most girls give advice and don’t explain how to use it though I think it’s perhaps because like the women love compliments it’s thought that the way to go about using the advice is common sense.

    @Bp
    I guess I’m out of the loop I honestly thought women & men failed in dating because they just weren’t paying attention to general knowledge.

    I never thought the general knowledge wasn’t known to the general population.

    I honestly thought the red pill posting was a reminder to women not new things people didn’t know hence the swallowing was to me don’t forget reality or remember your medicine thing.

  48. If that were the case, there would be no Game blogs at all. But there are many, with a lot of readers. Most men AND women don’t know how the SMP works. We all need the red pill. Even a married gal like me learns something new for my own relationship every day.

    Cosigned. Both sexes are clueless. Promiscuous women and men function better in a sense, because the expectations are so low.

  49. Pingback: Guest Post: The Female Condition | The Badger Hut

  50. Yeah, I’ve been saying this for years too.

    Whenever I heard that “leagues bullshit” I wanted to scream, because it was obvious the person saying it had no real world experience.

    Any man who’s approached and interacted with a decent-sized number of women will tell you that LOOKS with the normal range are not at all a factor in how easy a woman is to pickup.

    Notice, I said within the normal range, meaning, the 5-9 range to which 99% of women belong to. Of course, an actual 10 might be somewhat different, or an actual 3 might be somewhat different.

    In the normal range there is ABSOLUTELY no difference – like at all. You’re just as likely to get a great response from a 5 and a 9. Just as likely to get a cold response etc…

    [Thanks for commenting, welcome. Guys just gotta approach women who strike their fancy. It's interesting that when guys complain that the scene sucks, the chattering clucksters assume they are going after women "out of their league" and advise them to pursue homelier women. As I say in this post, that strategy is a fallacy - our attraction switches don't care about our own "league," a homely girl doesn't tingle harder for lower-status guys because her own SMV is low.]

  51. Exactly… And even if there were such a thing as “leagues”, then 99% of people are in the same league anyway.

    League A: Supermodels
    League B: Normal People (95% of people)
    League C: Unfortunately deformed and morbidly obese

    On most posts written by men – describing the difficulties of dating for the average man you will ALWAYS,always without a fail see a woman come and comment something like “Well, you’re aiming too high then, lower your sights if women treat you like crap”.

    At some level I think it’s a trick designed to justify crappy behaviour by women, because this is where I see the trope used most often, when modern women are being called out on their shitty behaviour.

    The guy is always accused of “shooting too high” if he’s meeting so much shitty behaviour.

    AND I INSTANTLY want to scream when I read that. I’m going “wtf, did this guy hit on Angelina Jolie and the Queen of England? Wtf you even talking about? Where would he even find so many “women out of his league”?

    That’s on top of me having experience with thousands of approaches (mine) plus the thousands of approaches and experiences of hundreds of men that I’ve associated with.

    From all of these combined experiences, we’ve all collectively found through this AMAZINGLY LARGE sample that the “good treatment by leagues” argument is pure bullshit.

    There’s absolutely NO trace in it in the real world. Literally no correlation. I (and my circles) have literally approached and interacted in every imaginable context with any type of woman of every status, height, weight and type…

    THERE’S NO CORRELATION TO ANYTHING. Literally… The percentage of shitty-women is the same in any group of women, whatever criteria you classify them by. Sometimes the skinny chick is the rude one, sometimes the fat one. Sometimes it’s the cute goth chick that’s rude, sometimes it’s the ballerina.There’s no rule.

    It’s a phenomena that’s tie to one thing (having a vagina), and a certain (these days quite high) percentage of vagina-owners have that attitude. Whenever someone brings up the leagues bullshit, they’re trying to hide that this is an attribute to being female, not an attribute to any one group of females.

  52. Reality Check

    I just thought it was ridiculous to approach and then try to play like you didn’t approach because she was attractive to you.

    I thought it was ridiculous to try to ignore the fact the you find her attractive in some attempt at a power play. @AdolphPixie

    Woman – you’re a deceitful loser.

  53. I didn’t make it up – it’s empirical proof. You’re not listening to the experiences of men on this very thread. The fact is that in almost all cases complimenting => rejection.

    I’ve done “direct method” at least a 1000 times back when I used to view meeting women through the prism of “methods” or what not.

    I got a super-wide-eye-smiling and super-pleased woman every single one of those 1000+ times.

    If you don’t know what direct method is. It’s where you simply walk up to a woman and say “I saw you standing there, thought you’re very attractive and I would like to meet you”.

    If you’re getting bad responses to complimenting a woman, it’s because you’re either:

    1) Not genuine/sincere
    2) Nervous/creepy when saying it

    I’m not accusing you of the following badger…

    But most of the time I meet puas and gamers, at least 99% of the shit they talk about they read in a book, and never actually tested in the real world. They will write endless blog posts about how you must never compliment a woman on her looks (because mystery said it), but they haven’t tried it even twice in their life.

  54. AlekNovy,

    “On most posts written by men – describing the difficulties of dating for the average man you will ALWAYS,always without a fail see a woman come and comment something like “Well, you’re aiming too high then, lower your sights if women treat you like crap”.

    At some level I think it’s a trick designed to justify crappy behaviour by women, because this is where I see the trope used most often, when modern women are being called out on their shitty behaviour.”

    I concur entirely, it’s a silly response that invalidates a man’s experience. It’s clear, though, from those responses that many women feel entitled to treat a man like garbage if she judges him to have lower status than she.

    AlekNovy makes a good point on the direct approach. It can be done. The guys who are so behind the curve (like I used to be) that they need the expert instruction of a workshopper or clinician probably have a long way to go before they can hack a direct approach successfully.

    But with a good confident frame and presentation as a high-value man, your compliment bestows value upon her and doesn’t make her think you are supplicating. I’ve also found compliments go over much better in day game when a woman isn’t expecting to be supplicated to the way she might expect in a night-game environment.

    “I saw you standing there, thought you’re very attractive and I would like to meet you”

    This is a much richer utterance than a simple compliment absent action. Dropping “yeah, you’re very pretty” in the conversation it will probably yield less than using it to move the conversation forward.

    Just this week I opened a group of interesting-sounding women and within a minute one of them asked why I had brought up some topic like her watch or their earrings (don’t even recall what we were conversing about). I said nonchalantly “I just wanted an excuse to talk to you guys” and went on with the discussion. Direct approach crossed with up-front vulnerability game is mental ninja.

  55. “I saw you standing there, thought you’re very attractive and I would like to meet you”.

    This is one of the best openers I’ve ever heard. It’s a compliment without pedestalization. I’m not surprised it AN batted a thousand with it.

  56. Reality Check

    This is one of the best openers I’ve ever heard. It’s a compliment without pedestalization. I’m not surprised it AN batted a thousand with it.

    I understand Susan that the method your lauding is overall fairly benign, and that there are far worse and supplicating ways a man pursue a woman, however it still seemingly does smack of pedestalization in so far as it immediately sets the woman up as the “prize” to be chased after… especially so if a man calls a complete stranger of a woman “very attractive”.

    ,

  57. Reality Check

    “On most posts written by men – describing the difficulties of dating for the average man you will ALWAYS,always without a fail see a woman come and comment something like “Well, you’re aiming too high then, lower your sights if women treat you like crap”.

    Imagine a man offering a woman who complains of men treating her like “crap” the same “advice”:

    “On most posts written by (wo)men – describing the difficulties of dating for the average (wo)man you will ALWAYS,always without a fail see a *man* come and comment something like “Well, you’re aiming too high then, lower your sights if *men* treat you like crap”.

    Or this one:

    I concur entirely, it’s a silly response that invalidates a man’s experience. It’s clear, though, from those responses that many women feel entitled to treat a man like garbage if she judges him to have lower status than she.

    “I concur entirely, it’s a silly response that invalidates a (wo)man’s experience. It’s clear, though, from those responses that many *men* feel entitled to treat a (wo)man like garbage if *he* judges h(er) to have lower status than *he*”.

    A self-righteous incredulousness from most women, and many men, to such a hypothetical comment on the part of a man would be swiftly and very hatefully forthcoming.

  58. Pingback: Happy Birthday to the Badger Hut, Part 2: Best Posts | The Badger Hut

  59. Pingback: The 100-Approach Challenge | The Badger Hut

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